View Poll Results: Which would you choose on a 1.6L
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll
GT2554R VS GT2560R VS GT2860R VS T3 50 Trim
10-19-2016, 10:30 PM
#42
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Sigh.
For 200whp? 2554 or 2560. The 28 series will spool much slower on both engines because of the larger turbine wheel. Stick with 25 series. Or don't and have sucky spool. It won't matter to me either way when I take my car out to the track what you did on the other side of the world.
For 200whp? 2554 or 2560. The 28 series will spool much slower on both engines because of the larger turbine wheel. Stick with 25 series. Or don't and have sucky spool. It won't matter to me either way when I take my car out to the track what you did on the other side of the world.
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10-20-2016, 12:29 AM
#43
Yes it will. You'll care. You'll be so mad. You'll hate. Be a hater. You'll be an oppressor of all that is good in the world. You're everything that's wrong with this forum.
just tell him to build his car. don't mention details. don't mention right and wrong. everyone gets a participation trophy.
PS: I like that OP voted "ALLOFIT". Seriously. this guy is cool in my book, even if he's using the wrong engine
just tell him to build his car. don't mention details. don't mention right and wrong. everyone gets a participation trophy.
PS: I like that OP voted "ALLOFIT". Seriously. this guy is cool in my book, even if he's using the wrong engine
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10-21-2016, 05:49 AM
#47
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Look all these "all of it" retards are dissing the 1600 bad, things over there are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. Easier to source etc.
You HAVE a 1600 and have only casual competitive targets at this point.
Turbo your 1600 and have a ball like I am. For your reference I run the Gt2860r (i think there is an s in there somewhere too..?) we have made 270 whp with a tune i was not happy to run in wheel 2 wheel racing (for reliability reasons and cost containment) and have since backed it down to around 240 whp. Would have been fine on the road where sitting at 100% throttle is very rare and of short duration. 200+ whp in an Mx5 makes a pretty quick car.
Mine is a low mount semi log and spools reasonably around 3k and 15/16 psi boost around 3 1/2 maybe slightly higher.
Reality is any of the turbos you are looking at will have benefits and disadvantages...the best advice is to just pick one and enjoy. smaller on the road is a LOT more fun, bigger on the track is a LOT more fun....
my shitty, un MT.net approved 1600 is a fun, cheap to run and competitive in my series car. Dont get hung up on the "specs" and get all internetty...just build it. You'll love it.
You HAVE a 1600 and have only casual competitive targets at this point.
Turbo your 1600 and have a ball like I am. For your reference I run the Gt2860r (i think there is an s in there somewhere too..?) we have made 270 whp with a tune i was not happy to run in wheel 2 wheel racing (for reliability reasons and cost containment) and have since backed it down to around 240 whp. Would have been fine on the road where sitting at 100% throttle is very rare and of short duration. 200+ whp in an Mx5 makes a pretty quick car.
Mine is a low mount semi log and spools reasonably around 3k and 15/16 psi boost around 3 1/2 maybe slightly higher.
Reality is any of the turbos you are looking at will have benefits and disadvantages...the best advice is to just pick one and enjoy. smaller on the road is a LOT more fun, bigger on the track is a LOT more fun....
my shitty, un MT.net approved 1600 is a fun, cheap to run and competitive in my series car. Dont get hung up on the "specs" and get all internetty...just build it. You'll love it.
Yes it will. You'll care. You'll be so mad. You'll hate. Be a hater. You'll be an oppressor of all that is good in the world. You're everything that's wrong with this forum.
just tell him to build his car. don't mention details. don't mention right and wrong. everyone gets a participation trophy.
PS: I like that OP voted "ALLOFIT". Seriously. this guy is cool in my book, even if he's using the wrong engine
just tell him to build his car. don't mention details. don't mention right and wrong. everyone gets a participation trophy.
PS: I like that OP voted "ALLOFIT". Seriously. this guy is cool in my book, even if he's using the wrong engine
Thanks again for the proper criticism and such
and thanks for trying to convince me to get a 1.8 hehe.This car is not gonna be a track beast or anything like that. Like kiwi said above I just have casual competitive targets at this point.
Not wanting to be rude, but why would it be the wrong engine, I know the 1.8 would get a lot faster spool and a beefier torque curve.
I just want to work with what I have, which is a 1.6. Maybe once I get the boost bug I realise that I want more power and low-end.
But for now I'll stick with a 1.6.
I'm dissing it at a 200rwhp level... the area under curve is atrocious.
The bigger a turbo on a 1.6L the worse it gets. If you going to stay with a 1.6L, then stay with a smaller turbo. Like 2560 and below. A large turbo is only going to spool slower and slower just to make a bit more top end where you're limited by rods anyway.
I'd much rather have the torque in a usable area:
that's the difference between a 62 trim and 50 trim compressor wheel T3 on a 1.6L -- all other things being equal
The bigger a turbo on a 1.6L the worse it gets. If you going to stay with a 1.6L, then stay with a smaller turbo. Like 2560 and below. A large turbo is only going to spool slower and slower just to make a bit more top end where you're limited by rods anyway.
I'd much rather have the torque in a usable area:
that's the difference between a 62 trim and 50 trim compressor wheel T3 on a 1.6L -- all other things being equal
Let's get it all clear which GT2860R I am referring to and compare it to the GT2560R:
Turbo Part Number: 707160-7
CHRA Part Number: 446179-54
Garrett GT2860R: vs. Garrett GT2560R:
0.80 A/R Cold Side --- 0.60 A/R Cold Side
Inducer: 44.6 mm ----- Inducer: 46.5 mm
Exducer: 60.1 mm ---- Exducer: 60.1 mm
Trim: 55 ------------------- Trim: 60
0.64 A/R Hot Side ----- 0.64 A/R Hot Side
Inducer: 53.9 mm ------ Inducer: 53 mm
Exducer: 42.4 mm ----- Exducer: 41.7 mm
Trim: 62 -------------------- Trim: 62
Other specifications:
Turbine housing cast from high-nickel "Ni-Resist" material Turbine wheel is cast from "Inconel" material
for extreme applications Turbine housing has a unique "compact" 5-bolt outlet that is not interchangeable
with traditional T25 5-bolt outlets Bolt-on turbo for Nissan RB26DETT.
Compressor/Turbine map:
We can conclude:
Max rated BHP: GT2860R ~310BHP vs. GT2560R ~330BHP.
Max turbine CGTF: GT2860R ~15.7lb/min vs. GT2560R ~14.5lb/min
The GT2860R compressor can hold more pressure in the lower flow range then the 2560.
The GT2860R turbine could be more efficient, although the max efficiency is a useless number it ''could'' be more efficient.
The GT2560R has just a tad more top end compressor flow.
This is how I conclude spool-wise it will not differ very much since the compressors are almost the same but the 2860 turbine will flow just a little more and the wheel is 0.9mm bigger. The 2860 will be just behind the 2560.
These are some of the reasons I got so interested in the 2860. But there are also a few drawbacks vs the 2560.
But I have not decided on anything yet.
I want to atleast thank everybody for their .02 cents already
Regards
Last edited by Gerbocharged; 10-21-2016 at 06:33 AM.
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10-21-2016, 08:25 AM
#48
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The compressor wheel of the 2860 you've selected is designed for high-boost, low-flow. Where the 2560 wheel is designed for lower boost levels, but higher flowrates. I'm going out on a limb here and going to say youre not looking to run 25psi.
While the 2860 turbine is more efficient up top, take notice at what PR each crosses the 10 lb/min mark. Considering the compressor wheels are the same size/weight, and the design of the wheels, the 2860 is going to have substantially slower spool without much gains up top. If you're targeting 250hp, look at where the compressor map stops at the 25lb/min mark -- on a 1.6L, the PR required to output 250hp is going to be roughly 2. Look how better suited that 2560 wheel is considering.
the 2860 on paper here seems like a bad choice, it's geared for a larger motor to spin it up, and then to run higher boost levels to output your power.
The 2560 is great on every 1.8L i've driven, it can spool fast and hit over 300rwhp. The 2860 only gives you a little top-end breathing in exchange for shitty boost threshold and lower area-under curve. I dunno why it would be considered on a 1.6L, let alone a 1.8L.
consider this 99 motor running a 2860:
my dyno on my 1.6L is better.
FM has done the comparison as well (keep in mind they used the 62 trim 2860): http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=445793
While that T3 50 trim has a turbine more similar to the GT28 series, the compressor wheel behaves more like a 2554.
While the 2860 turbine is more efficient up top, take notice at what PR each crosses the 10 lb/min mark. Considering the compressor wheels are the same size/weight, and the design of the wheels, the 2860 is going to have substantially slower spool without much gains up top. If you're targeting 250hp, look at where the compressor map stops at the 25lb/min mark -- on a 1.6L, the PR required to output 250hp is going to be roughly 2. Look how better suited that 2560 wheel is considering.
the 2860 on paper here seems like a bad choice, it's geared for a larger motor to spin it up, and then to run higher boost levels to output your power.
The 2560 is great on every 1.8L i've driven, it can spool fast and hit over 300rwhp. The 2860 only gives you a little top-end breathing in exchange for shitty boost threshold and lower area-under curve. I dunno why it would be considered on a 1.6L, let alone a 1.8L.
consider this 99 motor running a 2860:
my dyno on my 1.6L is better.
FM has done the comparison as well (keep in mind they used the 62 trim 2860): http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=445793
While that T3 50 trim has a turbine more similar to the GT28 series, the compressor wheel behaves more like a 2554.
Last edited by Braineack; 10-21-2016 at 08:41 AM.
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10-21-2016, 09:02 AM
#49
Everything has been said already... 2860 is more efficient to some degree, but on your motor it's going to be a turrible experience unless you plan on staying around redline to get it to spool.
The 2560 will give you some low, and a whole lot of mid-high power all around. TQ will push the car and you will go quicker than the 2860 from a 2k rpm standpoint. You will be able to hit peak boost and have it through the entire rpm range where as the other may come on at a later rpm and make all of your low end a sad miserable old dog in pain that needs to be taken out and shot. From a 2860 user, don't do it... Unless driving over 100mph is what you want to do.
What rpm range will you be driving the car mostly in?
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10-21-2016, 09:34 AM
#50
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The compressor wheel of the 2860 you've selected is designed for high-boost, low-flow. Where the 2560 wheel is designed for lower boost levels, but higher flowrates. I'm going out on a limb here and going to say youre not looking to run 25psi.
While the 2860 turbine is more efficient up top, take notice at what PR each crosses the 10 lb/min mark. Considering the compressor wheels are the same size/weight, and the design of the wheels, the 2860 is going to have substantially slower spool without much gains up top. If you're targeting 250hp, look at where the compressor map stops at the 25lb/min mark -- on a 1.6L, the PR required to output 250hp is going to be roughly 2. Look how better suited that 2560 wheel is considering.
the 2860 on paper here seems like a bad choice, it's geared for a larger motor to spin it up, and then to run higher boost levels to output your power.
The 2560 is great on every 1.8L i've driven, it can spool fast and hit over 300rwhp. The 2860 only gives you a little top-end breathing in exchange for shitty boost threshold and lower area-under curve. I dunno why it would be considered on a 1.6L, let alone a 1.8L.
consider this 99 motor running a 2860:
my dyno on my 1.6L is better.
FM has done the comparison as well (keep in mind they used the 62 trim 2860): FM2 GT2560R vs GT2860RS, think spool. - MX-5 Miata Forum
While that T3 50 trim has a turbine more similar to the GT28 series, the compressor wheel behaves more like a 2554.
While the 2860 turbine is more efficient up top, take notice at what PR each crosses the 10 lb/min mark. Considering the compressor wheels are the same size/weight, and the design of the wheels, the 2860 is going to have substantially slower spool without much gains up top. If you're targeting 250hp, look at where the compressor map stops at the 25lb/min mark -- on a 1.6L, the PR required to output 250hp is going to be roughly 2. Look how better suited that 2560 wheel is considering.
the 2860 on paper here seems like a bad choice, it's geared for a larger motor to spin it up, and then to run higher boost levels to output your power.
The 2560 is great on every 1.8L i've driven, it can spool fast and hit over 300rwhp. The 2860 only gives you a little top-end breathing in exchange for shitty boost threshold and lower area-under curve. I dunno why it would be considered on a 1.6L, let alone a 1.8L.
consider this 99 motor running a 2860:
my dyno on my 1.6L is better.
FM has done the comparison as well (keep in mind they used the 62 trim 2860): FM2 GT2560R vs GT2860RS, think spool. - MX-5 Miata Forum
While that T3 50 trim has a turbine more similar to the GT28 series, the compressor wheel behaves more like a 2554.
The GT2860 is officially scrapped.
The reason it was introduced in my list was because of the higher efficiency and higher pressure ratio (which I thought I needed because of my faulty calculations).
One more reason the 2860 will be scrapped is because of the odd-ball ''compact 5-bolt exhaust'' (skyline OEM) pattern which is shitty to find a flange for.
Now on to the next
I think I'm going with a Garrett so the T3 Chinatarder is scrapped off the list so I won't enter the 50 trim party. Sorry to disappoint you Brain
Everything has been said already... 2860 is more efficient to some degree, but on your motor it's going to be a turrible experience unless you plan on staying around redline to get it to spool.
The 2560 will give you some low, and a whole lot of mid-high power all around. TQ will push the car and you will go quicker than the 2860 from a 2k rpm standpoint. You will be able to hit peak boost and have it through the entire rpm range where as the other may come on at a later rpm and make all of your low end a sad miserable old dog in pain that needs to be taken out and shot. From a 2860 user, don't do it... Unless driving over 100mph is what you want to do.
What rpm range will you be driving the car mostly in?
Now I will have to choose between a GT2554R or a GT2560R.
----- GT2554R
- Fastest spool
- Maxes out at ~250WHP
- Great for daily and autocross
- Craps out in top end
----- GT2560R
- Good spool
- Maxes out at ~300WHP
- More for track and higher RPM driving.
- More top end
Since I don't have a big race-track near me. And with regular daily driving I don't go above 5000RPM a lot.
If I'm driving my car hard on the countryroads right here then I'll be hitting red-line but It's really comparable to autocross.
A lot of turns and just sometimes there is a long straight.
I would say the GT2554R would be the best choice then.
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10-21-2016, 09:38 AM
#51
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A 2560 won't hit 300whp on a 1.6. At least I have never seen that done on a 1.6 miata. The 2554 is what you want to go with. It will spool the quickest on a 1.6 and provide the most power where you want it.
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10-21-2016, 10:19 AM
#58
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If I were to do it again, I would pick the 2554r over my current 2560r. There's just some scenarios during autox where I'm going too fast for 1st gear but too slow for 2nd gear, and I'm just waiting for boost to kick it. Of course, I'm just being super picky and complaining about < 1.0s (If I were to guess) of lag.
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10-21-2016, 12:03 PM
#60
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If I were to do it again, I would pick the 2554r over my current 2560r. There's just some scenarios during autox where I'm going too fast for 1st gear but too slow for 2nd gear, and I'm just waiting for boost to kick it. Of course, I'm just being super picky and complaining about < 1.0s (If I were to guess) of lag.
Regards
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