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Old 11-20-2012, 10:38 PM   #1
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Default Injector / MS/ Intercooler questions

So I have spent countless hours the last week or so planning and reading as much as I possibly can. I understand that these topics have been beaten to death... but I'm hoping you guys can help me clear up some specific questions I have.

91' 1.6L
Power goal: 180-220... Keeping it moderate

My first parts I purchase for my build are going to be MS & Injectors. I want to familiarize myself with tuning for obvious reasons. This brings me to my first group of question's reguarding injectors...

1.) I am leaning towards ID 750cc injectors. Am I wrong here? I can't see myself ever utilizing 1000cc injectors. Should I just get the 1000's anyway? Will it be nearly impossible to get my car to run right bone stock with MS & ID1000's?

2.) MS - Holy hell... I can't grasp the whole thing. What exactly do I even need to buy? Is it the DIYPNP? I would love to find someone local to me to give me the run-down on how everything works. I know they say it's one of those things that you just need to learn by doing, and I know it will all make sense once I jump into it.... but from the outside looking in, it's a bit intimidating

3.) I also haven't seen too much info on what intercooler set-up most guys run? Should I just grab a universal E-Bay intercooler/ piping and go to town with a cut-off tool and run the piping to the front mount? I'm not trying to cut corners, but obviously want to keep everything budget-oriented whenever possible. The intercooler just seems like one of the areas people are more laxed about

Obvious noob here... .... Please forgive me if any of these questions are already floating around. My brain hurts from reading so much and I have been searching these specific questions all day and havent gotten the exact answers I was looking for

Thanks in advance
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:49 PM   #2
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1-if you run pump gas on a 1.6 you won't need 1000's. 725's will be more than enough.
2-diypnp or ms2e or ms3x are WAYYY better than ms1 or mspnp1.
3-if you're cheap, go ebay. if you have money, go with a baller precision unit.

My responses are short because I'm drunk, but they are on point.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
1-if you run pump gas on a 1.6 you won't need 1000's. 725's will be more than enough.
2-diypnp or ms2e or ms3x are WAYYY better than ms1 or mspnp1.
3-if you're cheap, go ebay. if you have money, go with a baller precision unit.

My responses are short because I'm drunk, but they are on point.
That they are sir! Thank you! I should be drunk being I have the next 3 days off... throwing a party tomorrow night for Thanksgiving eve though!!! Don't think my responses will be as spot on as yours lmao

It will be 93oct pump so I should be good with the 750's then, which is what I was leaning towards.

I'll have to look into the precision... I'm not cheap and I have plenty of time to stockpile parts... Just need to weigh my options haha
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTMiata View Post
1.) I am leaning towards ID 750cc injectors. Am I wrong here? I can't see myself ever utilizing 1000cc injectors. Should I just get the 1000's anyway? Will it be nearly impossible to get my car to run right bone stock with MS & ID1000's?
The 750s are suffficient and more ideal than 1000cc injectors. Especially on your tiny motor with lower power goals. They are still completely overkill for your needs, so no, don't just get ID1000s and then post here when you have issues fine tuning them on a 1.6L with batch injection.

Quote:
2.) MS - Holy hell... I can't grasp the whole thing. What exactly do I even need to buy? Is it the DIYPNP? I would love to find someone local to me to give me the run-down on how everything works. I know they say it's one of those things that you just need to learn by doing, and I know it will all make sense once I jump into it.... but from the outside looking in, it's a bit intimidating
How much do you want to spend? How much skill do you have?

You can buy a complete PNP 15-30min installation box. MSPNP2.
You can buy yourself a kit and assemble yourself a 15-30 installation box similar to the above: DIYPNP
You can play with the big boys and make yourself a MS3x.
Or you can pay someone to assemble any of the Megasquirt variants of your choice.


Quote:
3.) I also haven't seen too much info on what intercooler set-up most guys run? Should I just grab a universal E-Bay intercooler/ piping and go to town with a cut-off tool and run the piping to the front mount? I'm not trying to cut corners, but obviously want to keep everything budget-oriented whenever possible. The intercooler just seems like one of the areas people are more laxed about
That's pretty much the way most go. I do really like the quality of the BEGi IC units, but I hate the price tag that goes with it. IC piping itself is easy peasy. You're lucky, when I was peicing together a kit we didn't have the overwhelming selection and easy of universal plumbing kits like you can find now.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The 750s are suffficient and more ideal than 1000cc injectors. Especially on your tiny motor with lower power goals. They are still completely overkill for your needs, so no, don't just get ID1000s and then post here when you have issues fine tuning them on a 1.6L with batch injection.
That's really what I was thinking on the injectors.... Just wanted to make sure my thought process was correct lol. Even if I want more power later on, I will still have plenty of wiggle room


Quote:
How much do you want to spend? How much skill do you have?

You can buy a complete PNP 15-30min installation box. MSPNP2.
You can buy yourself a kit and assemble yourself a 15-30 installation box similar to the above: DIYPNP
You can play with the big boys and make yourself a MS3x.
Or you can pay someone to assemble any of the Megasquirt variants of your choice.

I will most likely go with the DIYPNP2. I don't have much experience / skill with putting stuff like this together. I'd rather get it already put together and go from there... Look's like I'll be dropping $800 for that alone... Yikes! Lol I don't have tons of $$ to throw around all at once but I will be doing this build over the course of 1.5-2 years so if I'm spending 1K here and there over the time I am building my parts pile... It will be Ok. Maybe I should hold off on the tuning until I get closer to finishing buying everything. Who know's what will be on the market in another year or 2 as far as tuning and electronics go. I think I will start off buying the things less likely to become out-dated like the manifold/ DP, Turbo, IC/ piping, etc.. Save the Injectors, MS, etc for the last few purchases. I can still install the injectors/ tuning a few months before I throw the kit together on the car to make sure I am Ok with the tuning.







Quote:
That's pretty much the way most go. I do really like the quality of the BEGi IC units, but I hate the price tag that goes with it. IC piping itself is easy peasy. You're lucky, when I was peicing together a kit we didn't have the overwhelming selection and easy of universal plumbing kits like you can find now.
Ok so I will go with an E-Bay intercooler plumbing kit and I will be buying a decent intercooler... Precision, Begi, etc...


I feel a bit better on these topics already. Thanks guys!
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:01 AM   #6
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BEGi is bolt in, which is nice. Quality core with miata specific mounts.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:51 PM   #7
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Bringing one of my noob thread back up in reguards to the Intercooler, and also some Q's about an EWG... It looks like evaporator is right in there where the intercooler will be... If I want to keep a/c, do most people re-locate that somehow or just get a tiny *** intercooler??? The Evo intercooler that was given to me is pretty big... something like 24x11x3 I think. If need be i'm just gonna man up and rip the a/c out. I was only planning on keeping it for the wifey anyway.






On the EWG... Is it possible to keep a/c & p/s with that? My goals are slightly bigger than when I originally made this thread (230-250ish) But I would like to have smoother boost control. I have heard a lot about boost creep in churbo's and since I bought an ISIS, I was thinking it might be safer to run a Tial... tell me if i'm thinking wrong lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:03 AM   #8
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thats a big bastard of an intercooler
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:16 AM   #9
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That it is haha... I've found one miata owner so far who has used the same one but I can only assume he didn't retain the a/c lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BTMiata View Post
That it is haha... I've found one miata owner so far who has used the same one but I can only assume he didn't retain the a/c lol
most ppl ditch the AC and PS.. i kept the PS

you dont need AC you have a soft top :P but thats coming from a man who lives in a country whose temperature never exceeds 20 or 25 degrees celcius
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:19 AM   #11
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11x12x3 to 18x12x3.



If it were me, I'd sell that EVO IC to pay for something that will mount easier and isn't overkill. FWIW, that 18x12x3 was overkill and I have since gone to a smaller core.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post




11x12x3 to 18x12x3.



If it were me, I'd sell that EVO IC to pay for something that will mount easier and isn't overkill. FWIW, that 18x12x3 was overkill and I have since gone to a smaller core.

Brain do you think this Precision is still too big?

Precision Turbo Complete Air-to-Air Intercooler: NLM

That was what I was originally planning on using. The Evo intercooler is sort of a use it or lose it deal. My buddy said if I don't use it on my own car please give it back
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:17 PM   #13
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That's fine, but this one is almost exactly the same and is sold by Savington.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:15 PM   #14
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That's fine, but this one is almost exactly the same and is sold by Savington.
I'm all about supporting the community! I would imagine with a PM I could get a better price on it too! When the time comes, I will jump on a Precision intercooler. Gotta get my ARTech parts first though
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