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Old 01-30-2008, 03:54 PM   #1
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Default Intercooler Bends

From a previous thread, it was concluded that long intercooler piping (eg. older FM piping) did not cause an effect on throttle response.

How about bends? (90* 180* bends) w/ regard to reponse time?

I was looking on TRD intercooler site and they seem to emphasize their direct routing to the intercooler vs their "competition" utillizes way less bends.

Any effects on response?

Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2008, 03:55 PM   #2
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No. It doesn't change anything after the throttle body.
Not to say a bad set up (with more, tighter bends) will be as efficient as a set up with well done, soft bends.
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Old 01-30-2008, 03:56 PM   #3
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wait who concluded that length didn't effect throttle response?
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Old 01-30-2008, 03:57 PM   #4
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I'll say it.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:00 PM   #5
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I'll say it as well.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:05 PM   #6
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it has an effect for sure but it's measured in milliseconds and it's unlikely a human could detect it.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:06 PM   #7
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Please explain how it has no effect? (I am not saying it doesn't have negligible effect)
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:07 PM   #8
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Do you have any idea how fast the air is moving inside the piping?
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:08 PM   #9
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I bet it does on paper, but you'll be hard pressed to feel it. I've driven an old FM car and it didn't feel any different than mine as far as response. My pipes are both ~20" long. I think the idea works better as a marketing tool than anything. The downfall with longs pipes is their presence to heat in the engine bay and ultimately heat soak. But most of the long pipe kits aren't hanging out in the engine bay, but down low near some air and away from the major heat.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:26 PM   #10
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I would be willing to bet that the length of intercooler pipes makes a much bigger difference on S/C cars than turbos.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:28 PM   #11
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exactly. because most are blow through; the longer the tubes the greater the adverse effect.

increased throttle volume + pressure drop from FMIC = the fail.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE View Post
I would be willing to bet that the length of intercooler pipes makes a much bigger difference on S/C cars than turbos.
I agree, depending on where the throttle is
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:31 PM   #13
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The big question is throttled volume more so than just pressurized volume.

With a supercharger setup you typically have the throttle plate on the inlet to the S/C, so everything after that contributes to increasing throttled volume. When you open the throttle, there's more space that has to be filled before the increased pressure finds its way into the cylinders.

With a turbo setup, the throttle remains in the usual location and the volume behind it does not change.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:37 PM   #14
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unlikely. it's all about the cfm of air you are flowing and the volumn of the IC and piping.

an MP62 pushes 1 L of air every revolution. Most are spinning well above 10,000 RPM

How much air do you think your IC and piping hold?
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The big question is throttled volume more so than just pressurized volume.

With a supercharger setup you typically have the throttle plate on the inlet to the S/C, so everything after that contributes to increasing throttled volume. When you open the throttle, there's more space that has to be filled before the increased pressure finds its way into the cylinders.

With a turbo setup, the throttle remains in the usual location and the volume behind it does not change.
it's still unlikely a human would be able to tell.
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX5-4me View Post
it's still unlikely a human would be able to tell.
The difference in "throttle response"? Probably not. The problems that the S/C guys seems to experience usually relate to returning to stalling at idle and such.
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:00 PM   #17
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I am quoting verbatim from Corky Bell's Maximum boost:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell
When an engine is equipped with a speed density type of EFI system, wherein no airflow meter is utilized, or a blow-through carbureted turbo system, the length of the intake tract tan extend into the next county with no negative results insofar as throttle response is concerned.
Since most people do not use the original AFM for on-boost fuel calculations, I think this statement applies.

As far as the OP's question is concerned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell
Any bend in a tube or sudden change of cross section must be viewed as a potential flow loss or source of increased drag. It would be reasonable to estimate that every time the airflow must turn 90, a loss of 1% of the flow will occur.
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The difference in "throttle response"? Probably not..
Yep that's what I was talking about

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The problems that the S/C guys seems to experience usually relate to returning to stalling at idle and such..
Which I think is crappy engine management having issues with the transition between Vacuum and Boost or Boost and Vacuum.
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
I am quoting verbatim from Corky Bell's Maximum boost:



Since most people do not use the original AFM for on-boost fuel calculations, I think this statement applies.

As far as the OP's question is concerned:
Was he talking about 1% velocity or volumn?
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:13 PM   #20
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No offense to Corky, i think flow is a fundamentally bad way to look at intercooler tubing (when explaining pressure drops).

Every resistance in the tract will cause pressure drop, which translates to loss of hp
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