Just a few Questions
12-28-2011, 12:24 AM
#24
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 0
Lol @ this thread. We're being helpful past all the BS. They honestly just don't know anything beyond MS, and for good reason.
I, however, do. That's the wrong afpr you have there. You need something with a boost reference, so as pressure increases, so does your fueling.
You need something like this, for $225:
http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...&products_id=4
Plus you don't have anything to change your timing, which can be almost as dangerous as not changing your fueling system, so you'll need something like this, for $210:
http://www.crosslake.net/~dbipes/BipesACU/index.htm
Then, because you're increasing your fuel by increasing your fuel pressure (this is why you can get away with NEAR stock sized injectors), you'll need an upgraded fuel pump to deliver the increased pressure consistently and reliably. Like this, for $110:
http://www.1aauto.com/1A/fuel_pump/M...FWgaQgodIjoMlw
And as I mentioned during the fuel pump discussion, although your stock injectors can handle roughly 3 or 4 psi, that's it. After that you'll need either 1.8 injectors (if you have a 1.6), or something else in the sub 300cc/min range which will run you roughly $50-$100.
So now you're up at $600 minimum, not including shipping. I didn't include things like an o2 clamp either, which will run around $125, but isn't completely nessecary.
Now you have the MS option. Braineack, Reverent, that jewish guy, Wayne_Curr, and a few others all build MS's, along with the option of buying a MSPNP brand new for $595. I believe the member built units go for around $100 less. After that you'll need bigger injectors for $100-200, and an AIT sensor for $30.
Both these options can be had for used. This is technically where MS does come out more expensive, as they're still catching a premium in the used market, where band aids are selling dirt cheap. Although I have seen MS's go as cheap as $175, like this one, although it's pending sale:
https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-parts-sale-trade-5/91-turbo-partout-62389/
ANY AND ALL OF THESE SYSTEMS REQUIRES A WIDEBAND OXYGEN SENSOR
I, however, do. That's the wrong afpr you have there. You need something with a boost reference, so as pressure increases, so does your fueling.
You need something like this, for $225:
http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...&products_id=4
Plus you don't have anything to change your timing, which can be almost as dangerous as not changing your fueling system, so you'll need something like this, for $210:
http://www.crosslake.net/~dbipes/BipesACU/index.htm
Then, because you're increasing your fuel by increasing your fuel pressure (this is why you can get away with NEAR stock sized injectors), you'll need an upgraded fuel pump to deliver the increased pressure consistently and reliably. Like this, for $110:
http://www.1aauto.com/1A/fuel_pump/M...FWgaQgodIjoMlw
And as I mentioned during the fuel pump discussion, although your stock injectors can handle roughly 3 or 4 psi, that's it. After that you'll need either 1.8 injectors (if you have a 1.6), or something else in the sub 300cc/min range which will run you roughly $50-$100.
So now you're up at $600 minimum, not including shipping. I didn't include things like an o2 clamp either, which will run around $125, but isn't completely nessecary.
Now you have the MS option. Braineack, Reverent, that jewish guy, Wayne_Curr, and a few others all build MS's, along with the option of buying a MSPNP brand new for $595. I believe the member built units go for around $100 less. After that you'll need bigger injectors for $100-200, and an AIT sensor for $30.
Both these options can be had for used. This is technically where MS does come out more expensive, as they're still catching a premium in the used market, where band aids are selling dirt cheap. Although I have seen MS's go as cheap as $175, like this one, although it's pending sale:
https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-parts-sale-trade-5/91-turbo-partout-62389/
ANY AND ALL OF THESE SYSTEMS REQUIRES A WIDEBAND OXYGEN SENSOR
Thanks
EDIT: I forgot to mention, the reason I thought I could use an AFPR like the one linked was because of this link on the FAQ: http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/ebay on the first kit it has the same kind of AFPR and it says that the fuel pressure regulator would work. Could someone clear this up for me?
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 12:39 AM
#25
The MS-1 2.2 is $150, easily under $200 with a soldering iron, solder, etc. I know you said your no good at soldering, but I think you could pull it off. There is a guide on here under some sticky, and if you want to upgrade to MSPNP, MS2, MS3, or MS3X later you can sell your built MS-1 and make up what you spent on it in the 1st place. If you want an MS-1 but don't want to build it, post in the "WTB" section.
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 12:44 AM
#26
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 0
The MS-1 2.2 is $150, easily under $200 with a soldering iron, solder, etc. I know you said your no good at soldering, but I think you could pull it off. There is a guide on here under some sticky, and if you want to upgrade to MSPNP, MS2, MS3, or MS3X later you can sell your built MS-1 and make up what you spent on it in the 1st place. If you want an MS-1 but don't want to build it, post in the "WTB" section.
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 12:52 AM
#27
I don't think you need a wideband with the MS, but with that MS (It's the oldest & most primitive) I really don't know. The MS1 3.0 (vs the 2.2) is $50 more, I'd look into that too.
You'll want to read these threads:
https://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/how-make-install-your-own-diy-megasquirt-13676/
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/super-important-megasquirt-threads-17498/
You'll want to read these threads:
https://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/how-make-install-your-own-diy-megasquirt-13676/
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/super-important-megasquirt-threads-17498/
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 12:59 AM
#28
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,201
Total Cats: 1,136
Dad didn't walk in, logic did.
"**** bandaids and you, buy a MS" isn't a good argument. Reasons why he should **** bandaids and himself are.
No, you have larger injectors for a reason, your engine is bigger. Therefore the extra head room for a turbo setup that 1.8 injectors provide on a 1.6 engine is used up with your extra displacement, you'd need 305ish sized injectors for a bandaid setup. And my quote earlier is incorrect, you don't want sub 300cc/min injectors, you want sub 350. Anything larger and at idle you'll be dumping so much fuel in that it'll stumble/stall.
That's true, you can. Have you experienced a turbo car before? Specifically the feeling of roughly where the turbo spools up and kicks in? Retarding your timing will feel like a similar effect. Yes it makes it safe up top, but you'll get rid of a lot of your torque down low, making it even more pathetic than a stock engine around town.
Nope, no way.
True, we say that ebay kit LOOKS decent, and that it even has some sort of fuel pressure regulator, but we didn't say it would work. That's the problem with ebay kits, they lure noobs like you (no offense) to thinking they'll work for their application. Truth is they won't.
"**** bandaids and you, buy a MS" isn't a good argument. Reasons why he should **** bandaids and himself are.
No, you have larger injectors for a reason, your engine is bigger. Therefore the extra head room for a turbo setup that 1.8 injectors provide on a 1.6 engine is used up with your extra displacement, you'd need 305ish sized injectors for a bandaid setup. And my quote earlier is incorrect, you don't want sub 300cc/min injectors, you want sub 350. Anything larger and at idle you'll be dumping so much fuel in that it'll stumble/stall.
Is there no way to use the AFPR that I had linked? I got one for free from a friend that is very similar, so it would be nice if I could somehow make it work, but if I can't I can't. I have been looking at the MS's, and the reason I haven't bought one is because I can't find one cheap enough. I'm trying to find a deal, and if I could get one for under $200 i'd be happy, but I figured since I already had the stuff for the AFPR I would use that until I could find a MS.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, the reason I thought I could use an AFPR like the one linked was because of this link on the FAQ: http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/ebay on the first kit it has the same kind of AFPR and it says that the fuel pressure regulator would work. Could someone clear this up for me?
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 01:02 AM
#29
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 0
I don't think you need a wideband with the MS, but with that MS (It's the oldest & most primitive) I really don't know. The MS1 3.0 (vs the 2.2) is $50 more, I'd look into that too.
You'll want to read these threads:
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=13676
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=17498
You'll want to read these threads:
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=13676
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=17498
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 01:03 AM
#30
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 0
Dad didn't walk in, logic did.
"**** bandaids and you, buy a MS" isn't a good argument. Reasons why he should **** bandaids and himself are.
No, you have larger injectors for a reason, your engine is bigger. Therefore the extra head room for a turbo setup that 1.8 injectors provide on a 1.6 engine is used up with your extra displacement, you'd need 305ish sized injectors for a bandaid setup. And my quote earlier is incorrect, you don't want sub 300cc/min injectors, you want sub 350. Anything larger and at idle you'll be dumping so much fuel in that it'll stumble/stall.
That's true, you can. Have you experienced a turbo car before? Specifically the feeling of roughly where the turbo spools up and kicks in? Retarding your timing will feel like a similar effect. Yes it makes it safe up top, but you'll get rid of a lot of your torque down low, making it even more pathetic than a stock engine around town.
Nope, no way.
True, we say that ebay kit LOOKS decent, and that it even has some sort of fuel pressure regulator, but we didn't say it would work. That's the problem with ebay kits, they lure noobs like you (no offense) to thinking they'll work for their application. Truth is they won't.
"**** bandaids and you, buy a MS" isn't a good argument. Reasons why he should **** bandaids and himself are.
No, you have larger injectors for a reason, your engine is bigger. Therefore the extra head room for a turbo setup that 1.8 injectors provide on a 1.6 engine is used up with your extra displacement, you'd need 305ish sized injectors for a bandaid setup. And my quote earlier is incorrect, you don't want sub 300cc/min injectors, you want sub 350. Anything larger and at idle you'll be dumping so much fuel in that it'll stumble/stall.
That's true, you can. Have you experienced a turbo car before? Specifically the feeling of roughly where the turbo spools up and kicks in? Retarding your timing will feel like a similar effect. Yes it makes it safe up top, but you'll get rid of a lot of your torque down low, making it even more pathetic than a stock engine around town.
Nope, no way.
True, we say that ebay kit LOOKS decent, and that it even has some sort of fuel pressure regulator, but we didn't say it would work. That's the problem with ebay kits, they lure noobs like you (no offense) to thinking they'll work for their application. Truth is they won't.
So a MS will eliminate the need for ignition control and the fuel pump/injectors? I plan on running at 5-6PSI.
Reply
0
0
12-28-2011, 01:19 AM
#32
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,201
Total Cats: 1,136
You'd need bigger injectors for the MS, that's it. The stock fuel pump is fine, as long as it's working properly. Lots of people replace it unnecessarily.
Like I said in the big bold print on my first post, you need a wideband for any and every setup. Even if it works fine without one, the instant something goes wrong, either with replacement aftermarket parts or with a stock part, you could be running under dangerously lean conditions for weeks without knowing until the engine blows. I had a small leak in the 1" long piece of hose connecting the fuel pump to the fuel pick up, causing me to run in the 17:1 range rather than the desired 12:1. This was a major issue, but all I felt was a SLIGHT loss in power. WB told me what was up.
Like I said in the big bold print on my first post, you need a wideband for any and every setup. Even if it works fine without one, the instant something goes wrong, either with replacement aftermarket parts or with a stock part, you could be running under dangerously lean conditions for weeks without knowing until the engine blows. I had a small leak in the 1" long piece of hose connecting the fuel pump to the fuel pick up, causing me to run in the 17:1 range rather than the desired 12:1. This was a major issue, but all I felt was a SLIGHT loss in power. WB told me what was up.
Reply
0
0
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bigmackloud
Miata parts for sale/trade
19
01-08-2021 11:24 AM
JesseTheNoob
DIY Turbo Discussion
15
09-30-2015 02:44 PM
