Just got a turbo kit & I have a few questions!
 

Hi guys, I am new to miata's as well as turbochargers and I beleive this is the best site for providing me with information on both. Basically I picked up a Garrett t25 with an HKS manifold, FMIC, and Downpipe that connects to stock. I will be running this @ about 6 psi and I am wondering what to do for management while I save for emanage. I am thinking I can get away with my stock fuel pump & ecu along with changing the injectors to a higher cc rating & not using a FMU. Will this be enough to minimize pinging on my 99 engine while running 91? Which injector size should be good for this set up. Thanks in advance for all the responses...I believe I know the answers but when messing with a Daily driven motor I want to make sure I get this thing done right. Please any advice is welcome, thanks so much and happy holidays:)

not a bad start. Whats your budget?

emanage aint much of an ecu anymore. I suggest a MS with stock pump and +400cc injectors.

Wow thanks for the fast responses guys...my budget as of now is like 200 dollars to get the rest, but in a few months I should have more expendable money. If you guys don't mind I have some questions that I cannot find solid answers to.
1. What injectors should I run as of now to get it started?
2. What size is the oil tee I need that goes into the pressure sender for the oil supply line?
3. What fittings do I need for the water lines connecting to the turbo "previous owner did not run water lines for the 2 months he had it"?
4. What size is the nipple for the oil return line into the pan?

I am taking all of these to a bolt specialty shop later, but if I have the information prior, that will save me a ton of time. Thanks guys!:)

1. not much until you can control them.
2. 1/8BSP to 1/8"
3. most likey 1/8" or 7/16-24
4 typically a -10an or 1/2" fitting is used.

I would recommend doing MS before the turbo. Or whatever ECU you decide to do.

Installation wise.

awesome, so in regards to the injectors would I be able to run my stock ones for now seeing that my psi will be low, or can they not account for the FI. :confused:
Also should I have stress cuts on the HKS cast manifold or should it be fine?Sorry I am such a noob @ this:inout:

No problems, you bought stuff, I like you.. you can come to my house and fuck my sister.

I wouldn't boost it yet. Figure out your fueling and timing issues first, then boost. There's tons of options, although for 99 im not 110% sure of them. Search around.

Hahaha awesome...yah the only issue I have is sometimes I read other forums and it contradicts another. I now will stick here for boosting all the way. What would be a cheap safe way to control my management, would I be able to get by with a FMU on my returnless fueling and stock injectors? If not what would be the cheapest fastest way to get me up and running with my new turbine! :)

I do not think that you are going to be able to run much, if any boost, safely with the stock injectors and fuel system. The 99 runs a returnless setup so it's kind of hard to run a fuel pressure regulator. You also don't really have a way of retarding your timing much either since there is no adjustable CAS on a 99.

I agree with the others that fuel/engine management comes first. You might be able to score a used FM Voodoo box or something of that sort that tricks the ecu into adding more fuel in boost for a low boost setup.

Boost = more air = need more fuel = one or more of the following: larger injectors/more fuel pressure/longer injector opening time. Since it's hard to increase fuel pressure with the returnless setup, you need either larger injectors or longer injector opening time, which means you'll need something to control your injectors = engine/fuel management.

so it looks like it won't happen this weekend :mad: hahaha...does anyone know what would be the cheapest route. I am able to get larger injectors for cheap @ the junkyard nearby and have them serviced...but in regards to management what would be cheapest...damn this returnless NB with no Bipes application available. :)

You can do an FMU setup, but if I understand the NB fuel system correctly, you'll need to buy a new fuel pump to use it. That's money you could be spending on proper engine management.

Like Brainey said, larger fuel injectors are the way to go, but you won't be able to install them until you do something about the ECU.

eManage Ultimate is simple to install and tune, but very expensive- figure upwards of $700 including the harness and sensors. Megasquirt is hugely inexpensive, and some folks are now running it on the NB.

BTW. You'll hear NA and NB a lot, it's a VIN code that identifies the various generations. NA = Miatas from '89 - '97. NB = Miatas from '99-'05. NC = Miatas '06 onwards.

Edit: looks like you already knew that. (NA / NB)

cheapest? or easiest?

MS or Bells Piggyback ECU

if you want to live a long happy life do the following
-take the 200 you have and get some injectors from the PnP injectors list from local yard or w/e
-send them off to witchhunter.com for cleaning
-save up for MS and wideband
-then install in this order: MS and wideband, injectors, then Turbo
-patience is a virtue

you will come out the cheapest if you do it this way, anything else and you are wasting money my friend...good luck
-Dan

You can find TunerToys in the vendor section, they have a T that we can use on our cars that they make for Hondas. I got one and its a nice piece, best of all 21 shipped.

.

Don't forget the AEM F/IC as an option. Cheaper/Easier than MS (although not as powerful duh), way cheaper than EMU.

AEM = ~ $400, and you have to tune it.

MS = $340 if purchased pre-built from Brainey / Neo, and they include base maps: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14598

Your stock '99 ECU won't handle boost. It will go lean as all hell as soon as you get into it. The Voodoo Box increased injector PW's maxing out your stock injectors which are only good for around 7 psi with that turbo. The largest injector i forsee you being able to control would be a 305cc. I never messed with larger injectors without good engine management though. If you did just swap in larger injectors, if they idled worth a crap everything else would be uber rich. It sounds like you don't have a wideband O2 sensor. DONT BOOST WITHOUT ONE. If you can't accurately monitor your AFRs you're bound to destroy something.
So forget the turbo setup for now, save up for EMS. Don't bother with the EMU.
To run MS in your '99 like mine you'll need a 94-97 CAS, no big deal, just another ~$75. The MS will do everything you could ever want from an MS including EBC and knock sensing.

i stand corrected :bigtu:

Holy crap you guys are awesome...thanks for the information. Looks like I will be going megasquirt in a month or so then. Thanks for all your help once again and I will keep this thread updated. Thanks guys!

HAHAHA I just had a CRX that I was building a DIY for. I bought these exact lines and just sold them :crx:

Can anyone direct me to a link showing how to run my Charge piping to my FMIC. The intercooler is sort of small, but it is a longer version with the inlet/outlet horizontally parallel with each other. I am @ work or else I would post up pics and measurements. It will be going on a NB, all I can find are links for NA's or NB routing throught the top with the radiator pushed back. Thanks

not sure i understand, but i guess just check out these pics
also, are you doing your own IC route or did your Kit come with some?
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...Picture071.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...Picture070.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...Picture068.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...Picture067.jpg
see if that helps you, this is a DIY set up
the piping can differ in a few ways though, so i cant help you there without seeing what you have...
GL

Thanks, yah I will try to get some pictures up tonight. It came with a couple of bends, but the previous owner sold the BOV with a piece he cut from the set up. I know its hard to explain so I will try to post up pictures tonight. But where would I get those brackets, is it all just custom fabircation using pieces from a metal supplier? Also, do I just have to remove the front bumper to access that area or is it much more. Thanks for the pictures, and that looks to be my IC type.

its an ebay intercooler and "cuztom bracketz" yo, haha
well, the brackets were actually kinda easy to make, just bought some 1" wide aluminum from home depot and then just cut to length and bend to desired angle, do not over bend it cause aluminum does not like to be corrected...the holes where the brackets bolt up to the car were already there...you'll see once you take the bumper off, its really easy, just use common sense, the bottom ones just get the idea from this pic. i also used some rubber spacers to help longevity...
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...Picture071.jpg

the car in pictures has both AC and PS so you should be OK if you have those as well
and please list your location in your profile...

Fashizzle... looks like you bought it at FM. All you need to do is round off the bombass edgez yo! Change your correction factorizzle to 1.21 on your next dyno run and you'll be making JDM power.

Mark

:)
Thanks for the info!

For my situation, might it be easier just to purchase a voodoo box?

go ahead, waste more of your money...

Its only because I want this thing to just get up and run...and compared to what I have heard...
wideband 180
MS 340
Cas 100
620 vs. the 415 for a Voodoo box seems cheap...someone show me where I am going wrong, I believe I am way too new to my miata's ECU/FMU.

look at it this way
do it right=MS 350+wideband 180+CAS 75ish=appx$600
do it wrong=voodoo 415, and then MS 350+wideband 180+CAS 75ish=appx$1015
so it is safe to say that:
cheaper way=do it right the first time
now you get it...

Hey, I have a 99 as well and my stock ecu controls the 330cc injectors that I have in there . You might be a little rich but you will be able to drive your car instead of waiting to figure out your management issues.

interesting, so are you running like 6 psi or so? Any other modifications to your car other than the turbo? Please PM me with more information...thanks

With the larger injector you need a wideband too...
Listen to those guys here... They really know what they are doing.

After 6 psi you want 8 -- 10 --12 psi ... So do it right... 1st time..

Im running 8psi with a front mount with no detonation.

Thanks guys,

For the oil tee is the BSP side male and the other two female? Please advise asap, I cannot find a solid answer and I am going to a pipe store today to create the tee...thanks

Most non specialty pipe stores don't carry BSP threaded fittings, it's just not a common fitting here. FWIW
You want a male BSP fitting, that converts into 2 1/8" NPT female fittings.
You could just buy the tunertoys one. It's around $21 shipped and it works perfect.

Thanks, but I am wondering why everyone says its BSP. If the thread is BSP into the block than wouldn't the OPS be BSP as well, seeing that its already in the block. If true than wouldn't that make one of the females BSp and not NPT? :confused:

Sorry for the confusion. The adapters have a male and female 1/8 BSP port. The OPS is 1/8 BSP, people aren't lying about this. I wanted one with 1/8 NPT female ports because i converted to a VDO OPS to convert my OPG to something that gives me a usable reading compared to the stock dummy gauge.
You just have to use your brain when it comes to things like that, there are always people giving out info that might pertain to them only. In my case, my stock BSP OPS went in the trash.

I got my FMIC mounted, it fit actually quite nicely. I used the idea above with purchasing the metal from home depot. A circular saw with a metal blade made the job way easier than expected. I will be running 330cc injectors with my stock ECU. I am relying on my knock to retard the timing if needed. I am also installing a DO WI kit to help with detination. I am hoping to get it all done this Saturday...wish me luck!

I ran a voodoo box at 8 psi, never saw leaner than 12.3-12.5 in boost. I ran stock ECU timing and never heard any detonation. That was with stock injectors. With the DO kit you should be alright. Just be careful with it.

for sure, I will be watching/ listening for any problems...what would I do in regards to the tapped pan if I did need to remove it? Would it be easier to put a plug on top of the nipple or unscrew it and place in a similar thread bolt. It's not that big of a deal, just wondering if anyone has had to deal with that. thanks

You should JB Weld the threads of the fitting you screw in the oil pan. It would be easier to just put a cap on the barbed end if you needed to remove it.

awesome, sorry for all the questions...what about spark plugs will my stock NGK plugs and wires "blue" be ok, or should I go to a colder plug? If so what is the P/N? Thanks

You can go one step colder, I think you want NGK BKR7Es, they come gapped to .35, you can keep them there or close them up to .3. You NGK wires will be fine unless they're old and falling apart. Pretty sure that the 7s are the right one. You might have them already. Either way, if you haven't changed plugs in a while, you should do it anyway.

Thanks, today I was working on routing the piping, I have a old Volvo BOV it should turn out nice!

Starting tomorrow, I will try to take lots of pictures...just waiting for the UPS & USPS people to bring me my DO system, Injectors, and Oil tee...

one step colder for 1.8L miatas are 1.6L miata plugs.

You will need to do some more reading and see what we are talking about for fueling etc. The newer miatas like you have take, abit more electronic handywork or money. The more you read on this forum and ask questions the less likely you will be to screw anything up. We are happy to help so long as we don't have to reexplain everything. A Kajillion times and even them we sometimes keep on throwing the right answers in your face until it sinks in. Any who happy posting. :D

ngk 7s will work

I was goign through all this stuff with my NB too. However, im on a JRSC at ~8psi. I have had the fuel controller (Voodoo box) become disconnected and the stock ECU WILL NOT FUEL ANY BOOST WHATSOEVER.

Difference for me getting a Voodoo box is that i picked it up barely used with a Innovative wideband O2 w/digital readout for $300.

After much frustration about how to control fuel with my planned T3/TO4E.... i just scrapped the whole idea , put everything i had collected and got a Hydra and 550's.

Thanks for the advice guys, I really don't mind trying it like this. For sure if something goes wrong, or the car just doesn't feel right I will remove it ASAP "I got off of work for tomorrow and Monday, so my weekend is extended". I have read a couple of people running it like this and some swear it should be ok. I feel like trying it, and heck, even if the car runs like crap then we have some factual evidence vs all these people who are saying it definitely will work. Wish me luck...

HI guys, I am almost done, I just need tap the pan, install feed line, and wire up the injectors. Can anyone help me with tapping the pan? I am have the tap, but I am unable to get my drill into that area, do I have to pull the pan? It looks to a PITA process. Please any help is welcome. I only have a little time before it gets dark & or starts to rain. Right now I am still searching...thanks

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...hlight=oil+pan

I found this, I think I need a 90 degree adapter.

Got it all done, you guys were right I am in definite need of MS. I am running rough @ idle up to 2,500... but after that I am happy boosting... Is there anything I can do to modify my set up until I can purchase MS. Thanks.

Install smaller injectors...
Buy an MS while you deal with running 6 psi.

yah I am planning on installing my stock injectors again today and adding my DO WI...I think it will run better.

Got the stock injectors back on today and it runs so much better @ idle, but has a bit of bogging "not pinging" around 4,000. I am installing the WI right now...here is a teaser pic.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3535/img1125uf5.th.jpg

Hi guys, while I am saving up for the tuning, I have a quick question. If I am getting smoke from the turbine most likely its because I need a restrictor on my t25 Oil feed line right? But I am also getting oily residue and smoke out the tailpipe...does this mean that the seal broke? Thanks, and it also has a bad fluctuating idle after warming up.