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Old 12-19-2007, 11:46 AM   #1
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Default Just got a turbo kit & I have a few questions!

Hi guys, I am new to miata's as well as turbochargers and I beleive this is the best site for providing me with information on both. Basically I picked up a Garrett t25 with an HKS manifold, FMIC, and Downpipe that connects to stock. I will be running this @ about 6 psi and I am wondering what to do for management while I save for emanage. I am thinking I can get away with my stock fuel pump & ecu along with changing the injectors to a higher cc rating & not using a FMU. Will this be enough to minimize pinging on my 99 engine while running 91? Which injector size should be good for this set up. Thanks in advance for all the responses...I believe I know the answers but when messing with a Daily driven motor I want to make sure I get this thing done right. Please any advice is welcome, thanks so much and happy holidays
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:57 AM   #2
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not a bad start. Whats your budget?
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:59 AM   #3
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emanage aint much of an ecu anymore. I suggest a MS with stock pump and +400cc injectors.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:05 PM   #4
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Wow thanks for the fast responses guys...my budget as of now is like 200 dollars to get the rest, but in a few months I should have more expendable money. If you guys don't mind I have some questions that I cannot find solid answers to.
1. What injectors should I run as of now to get it started?
2. What size is the oil tee I need that goes into the pressure sender for the oil supply line?
3. What fittings do I need for the water lines connecting to the turbo "previous owner did not run water lines for the 2 months he had it"?
4. What size is the nipple for the oil return line into the pan?

I am taking all of these to a bolt specialty shop later, but if I have the information prior, that will save me a ton of time. Thanks guys!
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:13 PM   #5
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1. not much until you can control them.
2. 1/8BSP to 1/8"
3. most likey 1/8" or 7/16-24
4 typically a -10an or 1/2" fitting is used.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:16 PM   #6
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I would recommend doing MS before the turbo. Or whatever ECU you decide to do.

Installation wise.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
1. not much until you can control them.
2. 1/8BSP to 1/8"
3. most likey 1/8" or 7/16-24
4 typically a -10an or 1/2" fitting is used.
awesome, so in regards to the injectors would I be able to run my stock ones for now seeing that my psi will be low, or can they not account for the FI.
Also should I have stress cuts on the HKS cast manifold or should it be fine?Sorry I am such a noob @ this
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:22 PM   #8
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No problems, you bought stuff, I like you.. you can come to my house and **** my sister.

I wouldn't boost it yet. Figure out your fueling and timing issues first, then boost. There's tons of options, although for 99 im not 110% sure of them. Search around.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
No problems, you bought stuff, I like you.. you can come to my house and **** my sister.

I wouldn't boost it yet. Figure out your fueling and timing issues first, then boost. There's tons of options, although for 99 im not 110% sure of them. Search around.
Hahaha awesome...yah the only issue I have is sometimes I read other forums and it contradicts another. I now will stick here for boosting all the way. What would be a cheap safe way to control my management, would I be able to get by with a FMU on my returnless fueling and stock injectors? If not what would be the cheapest fastest way to get me up and running with my new turbine!
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:29 PM   #10
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I do not think that you are going to be able to run much, if any boost, safely with the stock injectors and fuel system. The 99 runs a returnless setup so it's kind of hard to run a fuel pressure regulator. You also don't really have a way of retarding your timing much either since there is no adjustable CAS on a 99.

I agree with the others that fuel/engine management comes first. You might be able to score a used FM Voodoo box or something of that sort that tricks the ecu into adding more fuel in boost for a low boost setup.

Boost = more air = need more fuel = one or more of the following: larger injectors/more fuel pressure/longer injector opening time. Since it's hard to increase fuel pressure with the returnless setup, you need either larger injectors or longer injector opening time, which means you'll need something to control your injectors = engine/fuel management.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by brgracer View Post
I do not think that you are going to be able to run much, if any boost, safely with the stock injectors and fuel system. The 99 runs a returnless setup so it's kind of hard to run a fuel pressure regulator. You also don't really have a way of retarding your timing much either since there is no adjustable CAS on a 99.

I agree with the others that fuel/engine management comes first. You might be able to score a used FM Voodoo box or something of that sort that tricks the ecu into adding more fuel in boost for a low boost setup.

Boost = more air = need more fuel = larger injectors/more fuel pressure/longer injector opening time. Since it's hard to increase fuel pressure with the returnless setup, you need either larger injectors or longer injector opening time, which means you'll need something to control your fueling = engine/fuel management.
so it looks like it won't happen this weekend hahaha...does anyone know what would be the cheapest route. I am able to get larger injectors for cheap @ the junkyard nearby and have them serviced...but in regards to management what would be cheapest...damn this returnless NB with no Bipes application available.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:34 PM   #12
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You can do an FMU setup, but if I understand the NB fuel system correctly, you'll need to buy a new fuel pump to use it. That's money you could be spending on proper engine management.

Like Brainey said, larger fuel injectors are the way to go, but you won't be able to install them until you do something about the ECU.

eManage Ultimate is simple to install and tune, but very expensive- figure upwards of $700 including the harness and sensors. Megasquirt is hugely inexpensive, and some folks are now running it on the NB.

BTW. You'll hear NA and NB a lot, it's a VIN code that identifies the various generations. NA = Miatas from '89 - '97. NB = Miatas from '99-'05. NC = Miatas '06 onwards.

Edit: looks like you already knew that. (NA / NB)
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:38 PM   #13
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cheapest? or easiest?

MS or Bells Piggyback ECU
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:40 PM   #14
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if you want to live a long happy life do the following
-take the 200 you have and get some injectors from the PnP injectors list from local yard or w/e
-send them off to witchhunter.com for cleaning
-save up for MS and wideband
-then install in this order: MS and wideband, injectors, then Turbo
-patience is a virtue

you will come out the cheapest if you do it this way, anything else and you are wasting money my friend...good luck
-Dan
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99NBMia View Post

2. What size is the oil tee I need that goes into the pressure sender for the oil supply line?
You can find TunerToys in the vendor section, they have a T that we can use on our cars that they make for Hondas. I got one and its a nice piece, best of all 21 shipped.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whaaamx5 View Post
if you want to live a long happy life do the following
-Add Location to your profile
-take the 200 you have and get some injectors from the PnP injectors list from local yard or w/e
-send them off to witchhunter.com for cleaning
-save up for MS and wideband
-then install in this order: MS and wideband, injectors, then Turbo
-patience is a virtue

you will come out the cheapest if you do it this way, anything else and you are wasting money my friend...good luck
-Dan
.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:00 PM   #17
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Don't forget the AEM F/IC as an option. Cheaper/Easier than MS (although not as powerful duh), way cheaper than EMU.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloS13 View Post
Don't forget the AEM F/IC as an option. Cheaper/Easier than MS
AEM = ~ $400, and you have to tune it.

MS = $340 if purchased pre-built from Brainey / Neo, and they include base maps: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14598
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:41 PM   #19
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Your stock '99 ECU won't handle boost. It will go lean as all hell as soon as you get into it. The Voodoo Box increased injector PW's maxing out your stock injectors which are only good for around 7 psi with that turbo. The largest injector i forsee you being able to control would be a 305cc. I never messed with larger injectors without good engine management though. If you did just swap in larger injectors, if they idled worth a crap everything else would be uber rich. It sounds like you don't have a wideband O2 sensor. DONT BOOST WITHOUT ONE. If you can't accurately monitor your AFRs you're bound to destroy something.
So forget the turbo setup for now, save up for EMS. Don't bother with the EMU.
To run MS in your '99 like mine you'll need a 94-97 CAS, no big deal, just another ~$75. The MS will do everything you could ever want from an MS including EBC and knock sensing.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
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i stand corrected
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