MBC or EBC? or just personal preference? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2008, 05:51 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 399
Total Cats: 0
Default MBC or EBC? or just personal preference?

Is there any real advantage of an electronic boost controller over a manual other than ease of use and accuracy? does it offer that much better boost response and more constant/accurate boost throughout the rpm range to warrant its price? or is it all just personal preference?
teknikscian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 09:01 PM   #2
Senior Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 606
Total Cats: 0
Default

An EBC will hold the wastegate fully closed until target boost is reached. An MBC will perform better than an open wastegate line, but will open the wastegate prior to your target boost since it utilizes a spring which is not an on/off mechanism like a solenoid is.

So it will yield target boost at a lower rpm when compared to an MBC.
jasonrobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 09:48 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

I made a thread like this before.

EBC was the unanimous choice.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 09:51 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Without MS, EBC is expensive. With MS it's only like $30 more than MBC, or less even if you're crafty. Your choice, both increase boost just fine. Depends on how much boost control you actually want.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 10:21 PM   #5
hrk
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 335
Total Cats: 2
Default

MBC.
At first EBC seemed to be fine, but after 3-5 successful weekends at set 9 psi Tullos EBC decided to stay open at 7 psi wastegate spring pressure. I was pretty much on my own to figure out why that started to happen, never did figure it out, but during troubleshooting I managed to jam ebc closed and ran the engine without boost control for 20 minutes. Running with 17+ boost was done by choice and not ignorance.

Ordered MBC for this coming season, that one I can troubleshoot and there is no wires to melt during 3 hour road race or when wastegate starts leaking.

hrk

Last edited by hrk; 01-09-2008 at 11:58 PM.
hrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 11:31 PM   #6
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,367
Total Cats: 1,331
Default

Without MS, MBC is far and away more cost effective.

Having said that, if I see an MS and a manual boost controller on someone's car and the next words out of their mouth aren't "The EBC solenoid is on order" I'm going to sock them in the face.

I've been running MBC for 4-5 months now with no issue. Finally figured out how to get the damn thing to stop clicking on startup, too.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 11:43 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
chriscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Carrollton TX
Posts: 1,702
Total Cats: 13
Default

EBC all the way. Used Profec's are around $200 all day on eBay. And with most EBC's, you've got three levels of boost at your fingertips: Off (wastegate psi), low and high. Much better than pulling over to the side of the road, popping your hood and tweaking the ****.

C
chriscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 11:52 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

check out Ben's dyno chart showing with mbc and ebc- amazing
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 01:55 AM   #9
jif
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 49
Total Cats: 0
Default

yah, but I see a 2.5" DP, more boost and a MS in the mix too !
jif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 10:42 AM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

my intention was to point out the difference in his runs on the same dyno sheet
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 10:50 AM   #11
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
my intention was to point out the difference in his runs on the same dyno sheet
specifically this one: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...4&postcount=15
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 05:53 PM   #12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 399
Total Cats: 0
Default

nice link

so does that mean that his particular MBC had reached its limit and wasnt able to produce constant boost?
teknikscian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 06:00 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Loki047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,145
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Anyone else see something wrong with the plot or am i as brain dead as i feel?
Loki047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 11:31 AM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Loki047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,145
Total Cats: 0
Default

Ok seriously why isnt the cross over of torque and HP at 5252 RPM?
Loki047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 11:49 AM   #15
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

because the hp and tp scaling doesn't match. two different X axis values.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 11:52 AM   #16
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikscian View Post
nice link

so does that mean that his particular MBC had reached its limit and wasnt able to produce constant boost?
it means he was able to tune out a loss of boost due to the crap wastegate the greddy kit gives you. since you can tune per RPM, he was able to close the solenoid fully near redline to keep the boost curve flat, 1 psi loss at redline from peak.

i actually tune mine to make 1-2psi more at redline so my torque stays flat.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 11:54 AM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Loki047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,145
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
because the hp and tp scaling doesn't match. two different X axis values.
Yeah but the RPM scale doesn't change

Point where it crosses over will change vertically but not move to a higher RPM
Loki047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 12:02 PM   #18
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

if TQ is scaled to 227 and HP scaled to 255, then 5252 crossover wont happen on that particular plot.


ready..... case & point:
Attached Thumbnails
MBC or EBC?  or just personal preference?-crossover.jpg   MBC or EBC?  or just personal preference?-crossover1.jpg  
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 12:11 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Loki047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,145
Total Cats: 0
Default

yeah your right holy **** im brain dead. Hmmm Useless RPM
Loki047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 12:14 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
chriscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Carrollton TX
Posts: 1,702
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
it means he was able to tune out a loss of boost due to the crap wastegate the greddy kit gives you. since you can tune per RPM, he was able to close the solenoid fully near redline to keep the boost curve flat, 1 psi loss at redline from peak.

i actually tune mine to make 1-2psi more at redline so my torque stays flat.
Boost per RPM, sweet trick. Are you and him using the MS ebc? If you do that, can you also do gear based boost?

C
chriscar is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Momo Supercup seat jpreston Miata parts for sale/trade 2 05-17-2016 01:51 AM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
1996 Turbo Build Goldwar DIY Turbo Discussion 2 09-29-2015 10:20 AM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 AM.