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Old 11-15-2007, 08:33 PM   #1
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Default Nitrous users... How much juice to spool?

This is the first time I am personally gonna spray a car to spool the turbo.

The kit... a bunch o parts I had lying around, including 4 wet NOS Foggers and a 10 lb bottle.

The jets. I have 16/21/24/36 and an adjustable fuel regulator, I plan to run E85 or gasoline, I will obviously have to adjust fuel pressure/jets to compensate for the different fuels run 25 PSI with gas and 45 PSI with E85.

Options.

1. Port inject the sucker with the #21 and #16 for about 80 HP

2. Port inject it to make 100 HP with the #24 and #16 (or the #21 if I need it.)

3. Port inject the bitch with the #36 and #24 for about 200 HP.

4. Two foggers for 40 HP using the #21 and #16.

5. Two foggers for 100 HP with the #36 and #24 jets.

6. Run a single fogger with the #24 and #16 jet, and drop the fuel pressure a bit more to get 25 HP.

Obviously I can run more combinations than that but those seem like the most reasonable options so far. I am leaning towards either option #1,#2 or #4 or #6.

So would you port inject it or keep it simple and just run one nozzle? I should be picking the car up on Xmas.

Mark
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:48 PM   #2
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what kind of car is it going on and what's been done to it? Is the engine stock? when does the turbo normally spool? Is your goal to spool the bitch or spool but still use it once it's spooled? You could do both.
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:10 PM   #3
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what kind of car is it going on and what's been done to it? Is the engine stock? when does the turbo normally spool? Is your goal to spool the bitch or spool but still use it once it's spooled? You could do both.
1.8 liter Miata. Not stock. Rods, pistons, and valvetrain.

It's a fairly large .86 A/R turbine with a T4 57 trim 76mm compressor, just want to make it spool about 3000 RPM or so.

Mark
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:27 PM   #4
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There's like a 100 different ways to do this, depending on how much you want to spend.

Staged
50 shot on at 2K
25 shot on at 2.5K
25 shot on at 3K
Have MS actually switch to a different ingnition map when nitrous is armed. That way you can fine tune the ignition maps at different RPM's as each stage comes on. You could spray more. If you had a dyno chart of the motor, you could see what HP the turbo spools at, and then do some figuring to calculate what shot will get it spooled whenever you want it spooled.

Or..... You could buy an expensive progressive controller that looks at RPM and allows you to adjust spray at any RPM. That would be ideal, as you could just jet it for a 100 shot and tell the computer exactly how much to spray at any given RPM. That would make it easy to fine tune the setup too.
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:29 PM   #5
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i'm not really a fan of nitrous other than just a drag car, and at that point take off the turbo. so i say option #69, coldside to spool that bitch
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:52 PM   #6
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Got enough solenoids for a staged setup? You could run say a 35 shot and a 75 shot or whatever, and spray one at a time or both.

I have never done nitrous on a turbo car, but it wont take much to spool it up.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
There's like a 100 different ways to do this, depending on how much you want to spend.

Staged
50 shot on at 2K
25 shot on at 2.5K
25 shot on at 3K
Have MS actually switch to a different ingnition map when nitrous is armed. That way you can fine tune the ignition maps at different RPM's as each stage comes on. You could spray more. If you had a dyno chart of the motor, you could see what HP the turbo spools at, and then do some figuring to calculate what shot will get it spooled whenever you want it spooled.

Or..... You could buy an expensive progressive controller that looks at RPM and allows you to adjust spray at any RPM. That would be ideal, as you could just jet it for a 100 shot and tell the computer exactly how much to spray at any given RPM. That would make it easy to fine tune the setup too.
Don't have MS, and regret that I don't have a Haltech to be honest as this would be trivial with the Haltech. I have the TEC-IIIR which is an excellent ignition system but lacks in it's ability to be flexible regarding fuel.

I only have 2 solenoids (one fuel, one N2O) currently so getting really creative is not an option and I don't plan on putting more money into it. I basically got the N2O kit in exchange for a spare cylinder head that I had.

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Old 11-15-2007, 10:21 PM   #8
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be sure to rebuild those solenoids before you use them if they are'nt new. You take all the fun out if you can't get creative. I wouldn't spray more than a 30 if you can't adjust timing for it. You really need the electronics to properly support a lot of nitrous. 75 shot without the electonics to pull timing will blow a head gasket at low RPM's. So will a 100 shot at idle, as I already did this.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
be sure to rebuild those solenoids before you use them if they are'nt new. You take all the fun out if you can't get creative. I wouldn't spray more than a 30 if you can't adjust timing for it. You really need the electronics to properly support a lot of nitrous. 75 shot without the electonics to pull timing will blow a head gasket at low RPM's. So will a 100 shot at idle, as I already did this.
I can adjust timing and remember I will be running 105 octane E85 for the most part. I can't get creative with the fuel side since the TEC-IIIR isn't flexible in that respect, it is flexible with regards to timing and does do a Nitrous retard.

LOL, yes, a 100 shot at idle is a bad idea. So is a 150 shot at 2500 RPM, as I blew a head gasket on a customer car who told me to juice it below 3000 rpm... It pulled like a BEAST (nearly 400 ft/lbs of torque!)

I think that I am leaning towards the 100 shot with a 4 degree timing pull from 3000 RPM until boost is there. The motor should not have a problem with that to be honest.

Mark
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:45 PM   #10
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I dunno mark a 50 shot spools my turbo right well, i don't think you would need a 100 shot to get the t3/4 spooled i would try with a 50 and then if it doesn't suffice step up to a 75 or a 100. But damn that is gonna be alot of torque on your rods. But you should make more than 200 lb ft of torque before 3K even with a 50 shot. I think would be 85 lb/ft extra at 3000K
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:13 PM   #11
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I dunno mark a 50 shot spools my turbo right well, i don't think you would need a 100 shot to get the t3/4 spooled i would try with a 50 and then if it doesn't suffice step up to a 75 or a 100. But damn that is gonna be alot of torque on your rods. But you should make more than 200 lb ft of torque before 3K even with a 50 shot. I think would be 85 lb/ft extra at 3000K
Actually a 100 shot at 3000 RPM should be exactly 175 ft/lbs of torque, for a total around 275-300 ft/lbs. Ya, that's a little steep but really no more than the torque peak the motor sees at the wheels now. It would be a real rocket from 3000-7500, LOL. Maybe I should start with the 80 shot, maybe to soften it a bit, which would be 140 ft/lbs for a total of roughly 240-265 ft/lbs at 3000 RPM. It won't be on long... the sucker should spool fast.

Mark



PS How low does it spool with the 50 shot?
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:46 AM   #12
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How do you think the trans will stand up to a torque spike like that?
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:08 AM   #13
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I think hes running the 6 spd
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wideopentuning View Post
How do you think the trans will stand up to a torque spike like that?
Seems to hold up ok on the launch at the drag strip, I think the big challenge will be keeping the tires planted. I am running the six speed, so the 80 shot may make more sense than the 100 shot. Not having to launch the car as hard might actually have a benefit since I won't have to launch as high or as hard, I think it would be actually easier on the transmission.

And yes, I have the 6 speed.

Mark
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