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Old 02-06-2008, 11:10 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
I'm gonna need about 6 hours of practice before I put the mig to my rad...
can we get video of you doing the welds?? :-p

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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
I want acceptable oil temps after an absolute pounding on the track.
I'm yet to see any proof that that car has gone round any corners over 0.1G since that swap! :-p having said that, I'd love to see it on the track on vid maybe a bit too hot through a tight one **** hanging wide smoke pouring. sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Has anybody ever tried adding an exchanged to cool the water that goes through the OEM oil cooler, rather than hanging a second oil cooler in series with it? The coolant passing through that thing is typically 180 or so to begin with. If you were to mount a small water-air radiator up front and pass the water through this prior to the OEM oil cooler, it would increase the effectiveness. Plus it means you'd be running lines with a relatively low volume of low-pressure, non flammable water in them, rather than a high volume of high-pressure, flammable oil.
Rob had this cunning idea exactly months ago. I think its a total winner!

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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
Got the peace pipe (coolant crossover with filler neck) completed and pressure tested to 50 psi.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...fillerneck.jpg
looks like we don't need that video afterall :-p

they say ally mig is hard, many props to you if you can pull off some nice welds. it would be a shame if you messed up that nice radiator with bodgy mig welds when it deserves tig.

I might have to get you to score/send me one of those nascar coolers! pretty sweet indeed. (when i get back, not here)

fred.
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:17 PM   #62
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That would still not be as effective as an air/oil cooler. I welcomed the OEM cooler as it allows me not to use a thermostat for the oil system. Reduces places to leak, restrictions in oil flow.
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb26dett View Post
Rob had this cunning idea exactly months ago. I think its a total winner!
Rob? Who this Rob is? I tell you who is- is thief! Is idea thief, is Rob. [/old russian man]

But yeah. Last year I "downgraded" from a Mocal sandwich plate with a small Earl's cooler to an OEM cooler. It's plumbed in the stock config right now, and I have not had any problems in the canyons, though in fairness I have never actually done a proper trackday. Just seems to me that a small water/air exchanger (like a heater core perhaps) before the water/oil exchanger with a crossover valve would provide nearly equivalent cooling, but with faster warmup, less restriction and less thick, heavy plumbing. 5/16" water lines as opposed to -10 S/S oil hose, and if something leaks, there's no fire, less mess, and less chance of instant and catastrophic engine failure.
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:39 PM   #64
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Yep proposed that to rb26dett in his FE ute build. Think I had a diagram somewhere too. I think it's a totally viable option. I don't think it's commonly used on race cars because it's yet another system, but I'd think on a street car it would be fine, no different than an Air to Water IC. In my case it was just increasing the scope of the project, wasn't up for it.

Drag radials don't like high G turns. But the soft sidewalls are good for city driving.

my biggest issue with sending parts out, is putting the car out of commission. If I have to I will clean up the welds in traditional flux core style - but I think with some practice on the metal to be welded I can lay down a respectable MIG bead.

here's a practice weld on a cast piece:


Joe, I still don't know what the secret is behind you're ultra low oil temps. My temp with the tiny oil cooler stabilizes at 240f for everyday city traffic driving. If I go out and make a bunch of boosted runs it goes up about 20f. W/o the cooler it levels out ~275 and sees 300f with a bunch of boosted runs.

The next time I do an oil change, I'll test the sender in a pot of boiling water, but I suspect it's ok.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:25 PM   #65
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That's cast aluminum? I thought aluminum had to be TIG welded. You can even flux core weld aluminum?
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:31 PM   #66
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Aluminum can be MIG welded, but the usual MIG welder with the driving mechanism in the box causes issues when sending the soft aluminum wire all the way to the gun. I never could get my old MIG to work with aluminum with any kind of bend in the gun line (though Y8s says his does work). This clarke I have is a "spool gun" which puts the spool and the driver motor on the gun. It uses the little wire spools, but that spool and motor make the gun heavy and cumbersome comparatively speaking to a normal MIG. That's the price you pay for cheap aluminum welding. MIG welding aluminum is actually popular with in industrial applications - like robotic welding. My reference to "flux core" was in the clean up associated after making a steel weld.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:45 PM   #67
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Once I figure out how to weld steel (I am teh suck) I want to get a spoolgun for my Lincoln 180. You think it is worthwhile Rob? The weld you posted looks pretty good considering the equipment!
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:45 PM   #68
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Oh ok. I have a Craftsman flux core MIG at home. I have to check if there's gas hookups, but I doubt it. Would be nice if I could weld aluminum, then I'd make my own coolant reroute tubing instead of the cobbled mess on the car now.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:05 PM   #69
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Cool Doh!

Just got through testing my Autometer oil temp gauge & sender. Set up a hot plate with a pot of water and ran ground wire from the sender to chassis. Used a digital thermo meter with probe for reference, then turned the key on and watched the temp rise. Here's what I saw:

Ref/Gauge (temps F)
135/180
150/195
160/210
180/225
192/240
212/265

Yes - water started boiling right around 212 and that's where the test ended as the hot plate wouldn't get any hotter. Relieved to know that my temps aren't so damn high, but BS that the gauge/sender is off by that much. I'll still proceed with the big cooler in prep for track events and capacity... but less of a priority now.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:12 PM   #70
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jeez. i have an autometer oil temp gauge sitting in a box :(
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:19 PM   #71
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LOL @ Rob :-)

Good to know you never had an issue.

I dunno about this though :

Quote:
I'll still proceed with the big cooler in prep for track events
Seems to me at the rate you get stuff done on your miata you'll never see a track in it again (except the carpark ;-) )

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Old 04-30-2008, 05:22 PM   #72
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Lame, I too have an autometer oil temp gauge on the shelf awaiting install.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:23 PM   #73
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hmm i should bench test in water....
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:24 PM   #74
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I don't care what anyone says, I've always maintained that those gauges are consumer grade retail junk. This isn't the first time I've seen people with issues with them. Boost/temp/you name it.

You don't find them in aircraft or on boats or in oem stuff. There is a reason for that.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:28 PM   #75
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Rob, that's encouraging.

I really don't care if the gauge is inaccurate, as long as I know what the scale or shift needs to be. I'm smart enough to - 30% from whatever is shown. Now, I'd rather have it be precise, but not everything justifies the extra cost of precision.

Besides (and I've said this several times before) the purpose of gauges is to establish trends and look for something that is not in the norm. It really doesn't matter what the actual values are, as long as they are typical. When a value becomes atypical, you have a concern.
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Old 05-01-2008, 09:32 AM   #76
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Besides (and I've said this several times before) the purpose of gauges is to establish trends and look for something that is not in the norm. It really doesn't matter what the actual values are, as long as they are typical. When a value becomes atypical, you have a concern.
That's a good point, except you then have no reference point, or a wrong one.

If you were using a more reasonable standard (like all the components on your cars!!!) 100 is boiling, 85 is normal, and 0 is about to freeze/frozen. 85 is 85% of what you have, 15 to go. 95 is 95% etc. If you offset it 20C you end up with the percentages being way off.

Also, looking for trends is all well and good on a known setup, but when you mod the crap out of something, you need to know where you are, not just that it doesn't change. You need to verify your mods are working correctly out of the gate.

Anyone wanna place some friendly bets on the date of Robs first track outing in it? Shall I start a thread in "talk BS here" ? :-)
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:38 PM   #77
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Default Oil Temp Blues

This is a pretty good thread.

I'm on my third year trying to get oil temps under control.

I have tried the horizontal mount of a 24 row B&M between the steering rack and radiator. Config 1 involved making a scoop out of the under tray for air supply. Saw 280*F at Roebling Rd in June. I figured that didn't work because every thing above the under tray is high pressure so I was just exposing the cooler to stagnant air(no flow). Config 2 involved swiss cheesing the undertray to let the high pressure flow down under the car. No go.

Then I tried removing the fan on the intake side and replacing it with the same 24 row cooler christmas tree'd to the backside of the radiator. the car is track only so I didn't think I'd be sacrificing anything as long as I was cautious in the pits. Still 280*F in the hotter months.

Last June before Roebling Rd I put two 24 rows in series; 1 behind the radiator and one horizontal between the steering rack and radiator. The swiss cheesed undertray was installed. Still 280*F.

After the Roebling fiasco, I got drastic and decided there wasn't enough air flow out from under the hood. After all, without pins, the hood always looks like it wants to blow off.

I cut holes in the hood and put some louvers for Jeep Wranglers over them to create delta P for flow. I cut 2 pretty large oval holes in the nose above the black impact structure. Then I stuck a 12 row B&M between the hood latch and the radiator. That worked good up to temps of 87*F - on warmer days back up to 280*F.

I just checked my oil temp sending unit. I was hoping mine was going to read 45* higher like M2Cup's. Nope! It reads 15* LOWER! Now I'm really concerned that I'm more like 300*F.

My oil circuit consists of an external oil filter and cooler without any Tstat. Don't need one in the South. Oil leaves the block, goes to the filter, then the heat exchanger and back to the block. I have always measured the oil temp in the exit circuit of the block adapter.

I have always felt that the location of the temp sender is in an appropriate location. It's measuring the temp of the oil right after the oil pump. Now I am having second thoughts. What is the proper oil temp sender location and why?

I'm also considering running oil lines to the rear of the car and installing a long, narrow type of cooler maybe in the rear bumper cover, like a backwards race 911. That seems to be an extreme measure and I'm concerned I'll then have to deal with an overcooling issue.

Last edited by rrroadster; 08-25-2008 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:19 PM   #78
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can we get some pics?

I've been thinking about doing a mini scoop where you cut the holes, and place my 12x6" coil cooler there. Was the hood vent helpfull?

My oil sender is in the pan because that's the way in was in my vw's.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:25 AM   #79
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Sounds like the oil cooler needs to see ambient air flow instead of hot engine bay wash. Maybe cut a duct below the turn signal and relocate the oil cooler there.

One thing I've not seen commonly done (at all?) on Miatas to help control oil temps is to increase the sump capacity. I'll bet you could add 1.5 qt by welding some 'wings' to the oil pan...
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:11 AM   #80
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Like I said to Rob about 5 times before he found out, are you 100% certain that your gauge is worth looking at and accurate?
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