Oil pressure takes time to build... - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-06-2013, 12:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Don't overfill the engine. You'll end up aerating the oil because the pushrods/crankshaft will be churning it.

The oil filter should be a high-quality design with an anti-drainback valve. You may have gotten a bad one and be spending a lot of time filling the filter instead of lubricating the engine. Takes a minute to spin on a new filter. I'd do that first with a Mazda OEM or high-quality WIX, etc.

You'll need to drop the oil pan to "check" the oil pump. Also, AFAIK, ability to maintain oil pressure during operation is a pretty good check.

I'd definitely be concerned about 60 seconds to build oil pressure.

Good luck.
The above post got a negative prop from someone. I'm guessing I passed some bad info. Could someone please tell me what part of the above is out of line? I'm mounting a new oil pump on a long block today, so if I'm really off-base on something, I'd like to know. Thanks.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #22
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Seems on point and correct to me but I've only been at this for a few decades now.

Anyone else?
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #23
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Did a shop drill the pan for you or was it "a friend"?

I believe there was a thread at some point kinda like this where the guy doing the drilling hit the pick up tube. The owner chased it for long enough he pulled the motor and found the problem as well as some bad bearings.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #24
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Default Pictures of my New Oil Pump!

Let's add some pictures!!

The oil pickup is circled in Blue.

The relief valve is circled in Red. It consists of a piston that rides in a bore with a relief hole, a spring and washer backing up the piston, and a cotter pin to hold the piston, spring and washer in place. Cotter pin is easy to see in the pictures.

The passage that Joe refers to is circled in Green. Accessible from the outside (has an Allen plug). I think it is only a passage? I don't see how you could get to the pressure relief valve assembly from that angle, but I haven't disassembled anything.

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Attached Thumbnails
Oil pressure takes time to build...-oil-pump-front.jpg   Oil pressure takes time to build...-oil-pump-rear.jpg   Oil pressure takes time to build...-mystery-oil-pump-passage.jpg  
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:29 PM   #25
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Yep, it sounds like you knicked the pickup tube

It takes time to build oil pressure because you've got air going through the pickup tube and getting into the pump. Because air is much less viscous than oil, the tinyest of holes in the pickup tube can really screw up things - not only is the engine sucking in air through that tiny hole, but once the air gets into the oil pump, it begins to backflow across the face of the gears instead of going into the engine where it should go, meaning your engine is putting even less vacuum on the precious oil in the oil pan, complicating the fact that the pickup tube is knicked.

If you didn't touch any other part of your oiling system, other than drilling the pan for a return line and tee-ing into an area to source oil for the turbo before "all of a sudden I had a problem", then I would suggest with about 95% confidence that this is your problem. If you did any work to the actual oil pump itself, then I would suggest that your oil pump gears may be undersized relative to the housing by as few as 20 thousandths of an inch or less.

If you knicked the pickup tube, the only solution is to drop the oil pan and repair or replace the tube. Make sure you buy brand new oil pan gaskets and a brand new pickup tube gasket when you do this.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Let's add some pictures!!

The oil pickup is circled in Blue.

The relief valve is circled in Red. It consists of a piston that rides in a bore with a relief hole, a spring and washer backing up the piston, and a cotter pin to hold the piston, spring and washer in place. Cotter pin is easy to see in the pictures.

The passage that Joe refers to is circled in Green. Accessible from the outside (has an Allen plug). I think it is only a passage? I don't see how you could get to the pressure relief valve assembly from that angle, but I haven't disassembled anything.

Comments?

I have used the green plug to prime the oil pump when I had issues with undersized pump gears. It served me no purpose other than being a convenient place where I could funnel oil down a tube into the pump in order to force air out of the pump so that I could get a good pull on the oil in the pan.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #27
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I am in the process of pulling the engine because my oil pump relief valve is stuck open. I believe this is due to debris from tapping the pan (though I was exceedingly careful in doing it in small steps with lots of grease to catch the shavings) or due to debris from the oil feed line failure and subsequent turbo failure I endured recently. I will report back on the results of the necropsy of mine once it is completed.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:19 PM   #28
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This is a video I made this morning, it is 97 miata with stock gauge but TDR oil sender - THE NEEDLE NOT CALIBRATED ! -




It takes around 15 secs to build pressure - this is a cold start after a week.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
This is a video I made this morning, it is 97 miata with stock gauge but TDR oil sender - THE NEEDLE NOT CALIBRATED ! -




It takes around 15 secs to build pressure - this is a cold start after a week.
That is way to long to build pressure. I would start searching for a spare motor, or planning on pulling yours to rebuild.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:03 PM   #30
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You have 2 options:
1. Stop driving the car immediately, fix the oil pickup tube as I mentioned earler, and be happy.

2. Don't stop driving the car immediately, cry to us when the engine fails as if we care at that point, and don't ever plan on us offering you advice again.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:28 AM   #31
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Don't get mad Fooger03

The car is in the shop now, oil pan is coming off and we gonna check the bearings and oil pump.

Update next week.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:09 AM   #32
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3. Fill it up with oil all the way to the cap at the valve cover. Hopefully you'll get oil pressure then. I heard flushing it with water through it also works wonders. I'm done with this car! - MustangForums.com
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:01 PM   #33
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My car is a 97 and I just started having this slow oil pressure build regardless of pan oil level (even with new filter) before deciding to put my car away for the winter early this year. It's had the pan tapped for the turbo for ~4 years, always wix filters, runs beautifully and suddenly....rebuild time!
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:02 AM   #34
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Well, I figured out what happened to my oil pump. Does anyone remember when my dipstick was cooked by radiant heat from being close to my manifold/turbo?





Yeah, tiny plastic bits are light enough to be sucked into the pickup screen and partially clog it. Some were small enough to go through it and get trapped between the oil pump relief and its bore. This caused the relief to bind up and eventually seize in its bore. It took significant force to push the relief valve out of its bore, revealing a plastic piece flattened against the bore wall. So much fun.

There was no metal apparent from the oil pan tapping procedure in case anyone was wondering. I was very slow and careful when I did that, so I'm happy nothing from that process was involved. If it did, metal should tend to stay on the floor of the pan since it is heavier.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:26 PM   #35
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Wow. Such a little thing. Such severe consequences.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #36
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Moral of the story: do not let your dipstick get overheated.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:35 PM   #37
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The pan is down, the oil pump is out, the relief valve bore is stuck...

I need a pump, rod bearings and water pump (?) when the timing was last changed (not long ago) the water pump did not.

Can you guys help me out, where can I buy this parts cheap and fast ?

Thanks !
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:43 PM   #38
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:08 AM   #39
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I got this one:

90 98 Mazda Ford Mercury 1 5L 1 6L 1 8L Engine Oil Pump | eBay

I hope it is good.

This is current state:




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Oil pressure takes time to build...-img1146wx.jpg   Oil pressure takes time to build...-img1150ay.jpg   Oil pressure takes time to build...-img1151m.jpg  
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
The pan is down, the oil pump is out, the relief valve bore is stuck...

I need a pump, rod bearings and water pump (?) when the timing was last changed (not long ago) the water pump did not.

Can you guys help me out, where can I buy this parts cheap and fast ?

Thanks !
Ebay for the Timing belt and water pump kit, just make sure you get one with the GMB waterpump. Then you can get ACL street bearings from whoever has them cheapest. For the oil pump I would probably order a Boundary Engineering street pump.
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