Oil pressure takes time to build... - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-05-2013, 04:18 AM   #1
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Default Oil pressure takes time to build...

Hey,

I use a full synthetic 5w-40 oil, I noticed that it takes more time then normal to build oil pressure.

On normal circumstances it takes 1-2 secs to build oil pressure, on my worst time it took... 60secs... I added some oil but it is still not 1-2secs.

Should I add more oil ?
Should I change oil type ?
Could be air in the system ?
What is a normal oil consumption for turbo miata ?

It is a 97 miata with 203k km in a very good shape.


Thanks !
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:50 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
On normal circumstances it takes 1-2 secs to build oil pressure, on my worst time it took... 60secs... I added some oil but it is still not 1-2secs.

Should I add more oil ?
Should I change oil type ?
Could be air in the system ?
What is a normal oil consumption for turbo miata ?
What're you basing "having oil pressure" on? The stock indicator, or an aftermarket gauge?
Adding more oil won't matter, unless it's below the proper level indicated on the dipstick and even then you should get pressure down to ~2 quarts or something.
Unlikely to be air; once the pump is primed you're usually okay unless there's some kind of mechanical failure (hole in your oil pickup tube, etc)
Oil consumption varies, at 200k if you burn a quart every 2-3k miles I think you'd be doing about average.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:26 AM   #3
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I'm basing "having no oil pressure" on the sound of the engine + the original gauge + a new TRD oil sender.

Even if you leave the gauge and sender a side, You can easily tell that there is no oil pressure by the difference between the before and after sound from the engine.

After the pressure is on the engine is quite and "round", before that your hear a much less quite engine.

The second the gauge show pressure the engine become quite - I can tell the difference with out no gauge.

After I added a little oil (about .25quart) things got better but not yet normal, is there any risk in putting too much oil ?

Should I check the oil pump ?

Thanks

Last edited by elior77; 01-05-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:49 AM   #4
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Don't overfill the engine. You'll end up aerating the oil because the pushrods/crankshaft will be churning it.

The oil filter should be a high-quality design with an anti-drainback valve. You may have gotten a bad one and be spending a lot of time filling the filter instead of lubricating the engine. Takes a minute to spin on a new filter. I'd do that first with a Mazda OEM or high-quality WIX, etc.

You'll need to drop the oil pan to "check" the oil pump. Also, AFAIK, ability to maintain oil pressure during operation is a pretty good check.

I'd definitely be concerned about 60 seconds to build oil pressure.

Good luck.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #5
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It could be the oil pressure release valve malfunctioning and causing problems. I would start planning a rebuild.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:15 PM   #6
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You think it might be open when it needs to be closed ?

Do you mean valve rebuild ?

Thank you
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #7
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It is possible to access the oil pressure control valve from the outside. As I am sitting on the commode at the moment, I don't have the diagrams readily at hand, but in essense, there is a plug on the top-left of the oil pump (as viewed from the front) which can be unscrewed to allow the spring and plunger to be drawn out.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #8
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More input:

I had one time the filer o-ring blew off...


The time it takes to build pressure is not the same every cold start up, could it be from drilling my pan while it was on and debris clogging the relief valve ?
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:04 PM   #9
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What is "full synthetic"?
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:24 PM   #10
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If your judging this by sound you might be hearing the HLAs.

60 seconds without oil pressure only happens once.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:49 PM   #11
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5W-30 for all season here in Socal.. Mobil 1 synthetic
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
It is possible to access the oil pressure control valve from the outside. As I am sitting on the commode at the moment, I don't have the diagrams readily at hand, but in essense, there is a plug on the top-left of the oil pump (as viewed from the front) which can be unscrewed to allow the spring and plunger to be drawn out.
I do not think it is possible to remove the spring and ball from that hole in the pump. I will go out into my shed tomorrow and pull out one of my spare oil pumps and check.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:42 AM   #13
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Should I try this ? :

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Almost gotta be a sticking relief valve. Dump the oil and fill it with automatic transmission fluid. Idle for 5 minutes with it cold. Dump. New oil. Probably fixed.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:01 AM   #14
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I read here
Help!! No oil pressure on cold start ups! - MX-5 Miata Forum

that the 97 miatas are notorious for there oil pump.

What is a safe time till a pressure is built ?
Should I change oil pump ?
Which should I get ?

Thanks

Last edited by elior77; 01-06-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:30 AM   #15
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Personally i'd start with replacing the oil filter and go from there.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:47 AM   #16
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I had a new oil filter o-ring blown a few weeks ago, and then I installed a new OEM filter.

Could a different oil make a difference ?
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
I had a new oil filter o-ring blown a few weeks ago, and then I installed a new OEM filter.
Was this with an oil filter that was installed/running for awhile? Or a fresh/new oil filter that blew out the o-ring soon after install?
When it happened was the engine cold/warming up, or had it been in operation awhile?
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:36 AM   #18
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Fresh filter.
Cold start.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
It could be the oil pressure release valve malfunctioning and causing problems. I would start planning a rebuild.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
More input:

I had one time the filer o-ring blew off...


The time it takes to build pressure is not the same every cold start up, could it be from drilling my pan while it was on and debris clogging the relief valve ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elior77 View Post
I had a new oil filter o-ring blown a few weeks ago, and then I installed a new OEM filter.

Could a different oil make a difference ?


I would have to go with a shard of metal made it to the oil bypass valve in the oil pump.

Sounds like nit is now sticking in the bore.

Hanging open allows for the low oil pressure.
Sticking closed allowed oil pressure to build and blow out the oil fliter gasket.

I am not fully versed in the diffrent oil pumps of the Miata, but the one I recall you have to pull the retaining pin down by the oil pick up screen, so the oil pan would have to be dropped.

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...il-pump-65290/
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:13 AM   #20
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Thank you all for your input!

The time it takes to get oil pressure is not constant(some times fast sometimes not), I will start taking time and check. (I believe that after 3 secs with no pressure I should turn off)

And that o-ring blow away just once...

(damn I will need a new oil pump... don't I?)
Any way to clean what ever is giving me headache ?
Should I take it as a weak point in the 97 miata ? (as I came to understand)
Should I blame the guy drilled my pan ?
Others ?

Thanks...
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