RX8 injectors differences - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2014, 02:25 AM   #21
Slowest Progress Ever
iTrader: (26)
 
thirdgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The coal ridden hills of Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 183
Default

I'm pretty certain I hit 200whp on my stock 99 injectors.
thirdgen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 02:44 AM   #22
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 637
Total Cats: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I'm pretty certain I hit 200whp on my stock 99 injectors.
Both begi and flyin miata say the stock 99
Injectors Max out there. If that is the case the RX8 425cc injectors should Max out at around 325 on gasoline or 250 on E85.

Thanks,

Keith
Twodoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 09:59 AM   #23
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

I'd kinda worry about 250 with e85. After hearing some testimonies on these injectors, I think they'd be fine with pump gas. I've never tuned with E85, but I hear it requires a LOT of gas. Might wanna consider an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, or larger injectors.
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 10:35 AM   #24
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 3
Default

That's way above what RX-8 injectors can do. I'm capped at ~200 hp at crank (!), running around 90% duty cycle @ AFR 12.2. And yeah, that's E85 with stock fuel pressure.
[Ode] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:56 PM   #25
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 637
Total Cats: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Ode] View Post
That's way above what RX-8 injectors can do. I'm capped at ~200 hp at crank (!), running around 90% duty cycle @ AFR 12.2. And yeah, that's E85 with stock fuel pressure.
What fuel pump are you using and is this on an NB running 60 psi of fuel pressure? Last dyno session I made 200whp and I was running pig rich. That was on "winter blend" E85 though (E70).

Keith
Twodoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:26 PM   #26
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 30
Total Cats: 3
Default

Nope, it's NA with 43psi (?) referenced fuel pressure regulator. NB 60 psi regulator is not referenced to manifold so i guess they are effectively the same at 7 psi of boost i'm running.
[Ode] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:44 PM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Eindhoven, The netherlands
Posts: 170
Total Cats: 9
Default

hi, all

Since there was only one person that has replied on a topic that has experience with these injectors i will ask again

Today i picked up a couple of yellow 4450 ones. And a few hours later i got a mail that some has a couple of purple 4460.. At first i was looking for this one but the rx-8 model that has these injector where never imported to the netherlands. So i gave up searching and picked up de the yellow ones.



Does anyone more has experience with these 4460 purple ones?
Vincentmiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 08:40 PM   #28
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincentmiata View Post
Does anyone more has experience with these 4460 purple ones?

Nope.
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 08:56 PM   #29
Slowest Progress Ever
iTrader: (26)
 
thirdgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The coal ridden hills of Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,808
Total Cats: 183
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodoor View Post
If that is the case the RX8 425cc injectors should Max out at around 325 on gasoline or 250 on E85.
I was shooting for around 260whp, glad to see I picked injectors that will be suffice.
thirdgen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2014, 12:42 AM   #30
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 637
Total Cats: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Ode] View Post
Nope, it's NA with 43psi (?) referenced fuel pressure regulator. NB 60 psi regulator is not referenced to manifold so i guess they are effectively the same at 7 psi of boost i'm running.
Is your FPR a 1:1 ratio? That is what I am used to on turbo mitsubishi's. Yeah, at 7 psi of boost you would have around 50 psi fuel pressure, keeping the differential pressure between the fuel rail and intake manifold at 43 psi. Since mine is not referenced to manifold pressure I would still have 60 psi of fuel pressure, and the differential pressure between my fuel rail and the intake manifold would be 53 psi. It may not be a huge amount, but a 10 psi pressure difference will make a difference in how much power you can make.

Keith
Twodoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 04:52 PM   #31
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 269
Default

Bringing this back to get some input on my build. See Se Post 102

I would think I should be at those kind of power levels at 80% DC on these injectors. I know both Savington and Emilio have also used them in the past.

Note that I have gone to a return-style fuel system.

Should I be looking at the DW100 or DW200 to replace my fuel pump?
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2017, 01:43 PM   #32
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 269
Default

I ran an experiment this morning. Nice and cold, so already 1% more fuel requested due to MAT Corr. Then I changed the target AFR from 11.7 to 11.4 (Fueling is "Incorporate AFR")

Ran full pedal. IDC went to 108%. At that point, Target AFR was 11.4, but Measured AFR was 11.9. I'm pretty sure I'm no longer controlling fuel.

So, for now, I'm backing down max boost at high RPM so that I'm at least below 100% IDC.

Question remains: Would this be helped by a new pump or not? Or am I at the limit of the Yellows with 3-bar, MAP referenced fuel system.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2017, 11:03 PM   #33
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 590
Total Cats: 80
Default

What pump are you running? I can tell you I'm seeing fuel pressure drop at 6 to 7psi or roughly 175whp. I'm throwing in a walbro 190.
Bronson M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2017, 11:29 PM   #34
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 269
Default

Original Stock with 95k miles.

I've pretty much decided to back down from 194 to 188kPa, which gives me 96% Inj Duty Cycle until I have the car properly dyno'ed, which will be who knows when.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 07:14 AM   #35
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 590
Total Cats: 80
Default

I guarantee you that your fuel pressure is dropping off substantialy. You are out of fuel pump capacity by a large margin. To complicate things it's not like your fuel pressure will drop off consistently every time you go WOT, battery voltage, temperature, ECT. Will all affect how much the pressure drops off so you will see large variations in pressure. I wouldn't​ continue to run the car at these boost levels until you get a pump.

From what I've read you'll get so.e pressure creep at idle with any pump larger than a walbro 190. The 190 will easily support 300whp, so there isn't a good reason to run anything bigger.
Bronson M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 07:46 PM   #36
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronson M View Post
I guarantee you that your fuel pressure is dropping off substantialy. You are out of fuel pump capacity by a large margin. To complicate things it's not like your fuel pressure will drop off consistently every time you go WOT, battery voltage, temperature, ECT. Will all affect how much the pressure drops off so you will see large variations in pressure. I wouldn't​ continue to run the car at these boost levels until you get a pump.

From what I've read you'll get so.e pressure creep at idle with any pump larger than a walbro 190. The 190 will easily support 300whp, so there isn't a good reason to run anything bigger.
I don't know if "substantially", but that does seem like root cause. Following is an un-tuned pull after putting in a DW100. Looks like I have about 10% more fuel available at the top end.




Also, idle and cruise did not change, so that indicates that indeed, the DW100 does not over-power the FPR (1999 European MAP referenced).
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #37
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 590
Total Cats: 80
Default

10% is a nearly a full AFR point, so tOmato / tomAto.....It was quite a bit.

Considering the dw100 flows 165 lph it won't over power the regulator. I just swapped pumps to a walbro 190 because I was loosing pressure at WOT and found a 255 walbro in the tank, I'm running a fuel pressure sending unit and saw a 12 psi drop in pressure at high flow conditions. It was rocking up to 74psi at low flow and dropping back to the NB 62psi at wot. I just thought my sending unit wasn't calibrated, but ends up I had the opposite issue that you did.

Glad you got it fixed.
Bronson M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 11:09 PM   #38
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 269
Default

Good Point. 10% at that level is another 20 HP, potentially. And yes, it was a full AFR (10.7 vs 11.7) and at 90% DC while achieving that.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 12-13-2017 10:04 PM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 AM.