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Old 07-09-2011, 01:07 AM   #1
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Default sourcing turbo oil from vvt

ive gone a less conventional route when it came to sourcing oil now im thinking i might regret it.

so i took it upon myself to source oil for my turbo from the little cast aluminum elbow that feeds the vvt on my engine.

i wasnt lucky enough to have the oil feed on the exhaust side of the block and i diddnt want to go the sandwich plate route because i wanted to avoid having a hot braided steel oil line go across the trans and near all of my wiring and re-routed radiator hose. im trying to keep the engine bay as neat as possible, ive gone trough great lengths to remove any un necessary stuff from the engine bay i guess some would call it a wire tuck.

here is what i have done.
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im really new to all of this so please bare with me. ive rebuilt the bottom and top end (rings, bearings, valve seals, etc) and polished the head a bit. im confident ive done everything correctly. ill find out once i start her up but my main concerns are as follows.

1)is it possible that will i starve the vvt actuator or the turbo now that i have done this? the msm turbo does not utilize a restricter to feed the turbo its a pretty large opening on the original banjo bolt and im assuming it has been designed this way since its not a ball bearing trurbo its of the journal bearing kind.

2)if the answer to my first concern is a definite yes do you think it is a good idea to just bore out the hole on the banjo bolt that feeds the VVT on the side of the block to increase the amount of oil that can flow trough it.

i know nothing about the characteristics of oil and how it behaives when forced to go trough small passages under the pressure that the oil pump produces. and i have no idea how much oil the vvt or the turbo really need once the engine is running.


i appreciate any input and thanks

sam
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:37 AM   #2
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Why not. I like it. Where do you get those little hose clamp things for cheap?

I think you'll be fine but let's here what the sexperts have to say.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:46 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Why not. I like it. Where do you get those little hose clamp things for cheap?

I think you'll be fine but let's here what the sexperts have to say.
got them at @ pep boys very cheap. im sure any auto parts store carries them but the one in the picture is actually not even tied down. the threaded part of the valve cover bolt does not go far enough to put a nut on the end to secure it. i plan on just getting a 45mm long bolt vs the 40mm that the oe valve cover utilizes so i can put a nut on the other end.

and btw i like your car alot ive been trough your build thread plenty of times!
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:58 AM   #4
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I source my oil cooler from the OEM oil pressure location, which is on that same line but tees a bit earlier than you did. The catch is that I run an .035" restrictor.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:04 AM   #5
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Why does everyone have a VVT engine but me?

BTW, you're going to wish you used that little turbo brace after the first few laps on the track.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:39 AM   #6
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What turbo brace?
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:43 AM   #7
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Why does everyone have a VVT engine but me?

BTW, you're going to wish you used that little turbo brace after the first few laps on the track.
good eye! im definitely not going to run it without it. i have to shave some meat off the brace because it hits my oil drain line thats why its not currently installed.

the motor still isnt ready to go in i have to find a way to route coolant to and from the turbo and i have to see what im going to do about the heater-less coolant re route. thats what im working on now.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:44 AM   #8
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What turbo brace?
MSM's have a little metal plate that mounts from the bottom, left rusted bolt in that pic to the engine mount.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I source my oil cooler from the OEM oil pressure location, which is on that same line but tees a bit earlier than you did. The catch is that I run an .035" restrictor.
im really just considering enlarging the hole in the banjo bolt, a little bigger couldn't hurt.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samwu8k View Post
im really just considering enlarging the hole in the banjo bolt, a little bigger couldn't hurt.
With the .060" I pushed oil through the seals of the turbo, the .035" fixed that. So yes, mak,ing it larger can hurt. You should get a restricter.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:03 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by samwu8k View Post
im really just considering enlarging the hole in the banjo bolt, a little bigger couldn't hurt.
I wouldn't bother - the line that brings the oil up probably isn't any larger anyway.

Give it a try, but be very, very wary of starving the #1 intake cam journal. As soon as you get things lit off, test out the VVT actuation in your ECU/VVT controller to make sure everything works. If the VVT works, everything is getting enough oil - if it's sluggish to advance the cam, I'd be worried about oil flow to the journal.

e: I meant turbo, not oil cooler in my last post.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
With the .060" I pushed oil through the seals of the turbo, the .035" fixed that. So yes, mak,ing it larger can hurt. You should get a restricter.
heres the thing tho...

the banjo bolt that fed the msm turbo from the factory has a .140"(3.56mm) hole in it. i wouldnt feel right installing a restricter.

on the other hand the banjo that feeds the vvt has a .157"(3.94mm)

i feel the logical thing to do is enlarge the vvt bajo since it will be feeding 2 things


Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I wouldn't bother - the line that brings the oil up probably isn't any larger anyway.

Give it a try, but be very, very wary of starving the #1 intake cam journal. As soon as you get things lit off, test out the VVT actuation in your ECU/VVT controller to make sure everything works. If the VVT works, everything is getting enough oil - if it's sluggish to advance the cam, I'd be worried about oil flow to the journal.

e: I meant turbo, not oil cooler in my last post.
i dont think that the vvt mechanism supplies oil to lube the cam journal i beleive its only for actuating the cam gear itslef, but then again im not 100% sure. i just remember when i had the cam out all of the cam journals had their own oil holes. i dont even have the vvt tuner yet. i planned on getting it eventually but i need to get ms2 wired in and running correctly first. then after that ill concentrate on vvt fun.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:04 PM   #13
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Correct. VVT oil supply only supplies VVT and the cams are fed by the oil hole in the head gasket. However I do think it's prudent to check the advance as Sav describes. This will suggest if the turbo is taking away too much flow from the VVT.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by samwu8k View Post
got them at @ pep boys very cheap. im sure any auto parts store carries them but the one in the picture is actually not even tied down.
OK thank you. I have seen that summit sells them but they were like $4 apiece

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
MSM's have a little metal plate that mounts from the bottom, left rusted bolt in that pic to the engine mount.
Ah I was thinking that manifold looked weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
If the VVT works, everything is getting enough oil - if it's sluggish to advance the cam, I'd be worried about oil flow to the journal.
Remedial question- what RPM do you see your cam start to advance? I can get full advance around 3000ish.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Correct. VVT oil supply only supplies VVT and the cams are fed by the oil hole in the head gasket. However I do think it's prudent to check the advance as Sav describes. This will suggest if the turbo is taking away too much flow from the VVT.
99% sure this is not correct - you cannot just unhook the VVT oil line without destroying the cam journal/cam. The #1 intake cam journal is fed with the drainage oil off of the VVT system, separately from the rest of the head. There are some threads on m.net about converting VVT heads to non-VVT, and all of them involve drilling holes in the head to convert the #1 intake cam journal to feed like the rest of them.
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