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Old 07-05-2013, 01:25 AM   #21
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Yeah I'd say 250whp is unlikely as well. The 13t has a 5cm exhaust side i think... Starts to choke off quite a bit at higher rpms.

However it is a fun turbo, that is what I ran on my 1.6 at 12 psi and it moved pretty damn well. Never had it dynoed though.

Edit: just realized you have a 13c so I have no idea what I am talking about.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:39 PM   #22
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230 here with 19t
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I don't think you'll hit 250whp to be honest. But about 220 with a good hump of torque with an optimized setup
I would expect the setup pushed to the limit, maybe needing e85, could hit 250. But I would expect the 13t to be able to hit 260. On pump, which is what I'm doing (dynojet) with 5-10% more drivetrain loss on an engine that really isnt much better power efficiency wise than a 99+ miata engine. Put it this way, people have struggled to crack 380hp on pump gas with the 6758 on the 2.5L EJ and soviet made 400 on a stock intake manifold.

I still think the mutant 19t setup should be able to approach 300 on e85.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #24
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stop comparing the EJ255 to the miata BP.

just stop
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
stop comparing the EJ255 to the miata BP.

just stop
Sure theres a little more displacement (only determines where in the rev range the turbo is going to run out of steam), but they both have pretty meh knock resistance, blah VE, ok BMEP/Map. Functionally with tiny turbo the difference should be the shape of the curve and peak torque, they should both make about the same power if they run the turbo to the choke line.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:07 PM   #26
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By that retarded logic, all 4 cylinder internal combustion engines will perform exactly the same with a turbo strapped to them.

Just stop
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
By that retarded logic, all 4 cylinder internal combustion engines will perform exactly the same with a turbo strapped to them.

Just stop
No I'm saying that when you're pushing a turbo to flow as much as it can physically flow that the amount it can physically flow doesnt really depend on the car its in, so neither will the peak power it can make, unless one of the cars can run significantly more spark advance than the others.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
No I'm saying that when you're pushing a turbo to flow as much as it can physically flow that the amount it can physically flow doesnt really depend on the car its in, so neither will the peak power it can make, unless one of the cars can run significantly more spark advance than the others.
I don't want to go down the same road as we did with Dan. I get what you're saying but the motor does matter. If the motor is acting as a restrictor in any way the turbo can't flow as much as it possibly can. It can in the sense that it's flowing as much as it can with that much restriction. Each motor has a different rate of restriction. Some may not be restrictive at all. But the motor does matter.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
IIf the motor is acting as a restrictor in any way the turbo can't flow as much as it possibly can. It can in the sense that it's flowing as much as it can with that much restriction. Each motor has a different rate of restriction. Some may not be restrictive at all. But the motor does matter.
That only matters if the choke line inst near vertical. However, if the choke line is more or less vertical, and if one engine is a bigger restriction than another the restricting engine will have a higher boost pressure at that same flow. I did find a 13c compressor map, and its choke line more or less vertical and a pound or two less than the 13t.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
That only matters if the choke line inst near vertical. However, if the choke line is more or less vertical, and if one engine is a bigger restriction than another the restricting engine will have a higher boost pressure at that same flow. I did find a 13c compressor map, and its choke line more or less vertical and a pound or two less than the 13t.
for someone that speaks in absolutes you backtrack an awful lot.


sooooo. it does matter what car it's in?
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:40 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
I don't want to go down the same road as we did with Dan. I get what you're saying but the motor does matter. If the motor is acting as a restrictor in any way the turbo can't flow as much as it possibly can. It can in the sense that it's flowing as much as it can with that much restriction. Each motor has a different rate of restriction. Some may not be restrictive at all. But the motor does matter.
Do you know what a mass balance is.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:01 PM   #32
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Im going to go ahead and be a ***** and said that I had this argument, said that I could do 325 and that an F1 team could do 350 on a 2560 with E85, and then I went and did 325whp.

Sooo.... Using similar logic to leafy...
I agree with leafy.

Dann
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:48 PM   #33
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I'm not going to get sucked into this conversation again this is my last post in this thread.

1) yeah, yeah album i get it matter can't go poof or come out of nowhere.

2) I don't disagree that a 13t can hit somewhere around 250 hp

3) I am not completely disagreeing with leafy just didn't agree with his wording.

4) I don't care about whatever you have to say Dan. I'm going to go ahead and be a ***** and say your thread talked a bunch of big talk and then lacked any form of consistency. I would have been pretty happy to see some ridiculously awesome numbers out of your setup but you failed miserably. You weren't able to provide us with some sort of data that had a hint of credibility. We still never received the slip from the strip you said you'd provide. You could have written a fictional short story and I would have the same amount of faith of the information in it being true.

/done.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
Im going to go ahead and be a ***** and said that I had this argument, said that I could do 325 and that an F1 team could do 350 on a 2560 with E85, and then I went and did 325whp.

Sooo.... Using similar logic to leafy...
I agree with leafy.

Dann
I'm going to go ahead and be a ***** and for the MILLIONTH time call bs on you and your gay plots and numerous excuses and lies.

Then I'm going to go ahead and remind you that you backpedaled your way into the F1 team statement after massively failing to reach 350 yourself, even with your fake dyno 4.7 correction factor.

Then I'm going to go ahead and say you and Leafy are both retarded if you think a 2.5L completely differently designed engine with completely different heads, plumbing, AVCS (vvt), sequential everything, etc etc etc will produce the same power and/or torque as a 20 year old BP running the same turbo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
I'm not going to get sucked into this conversation again this is my last post in this thread.

1) yeah, yeah album i get it matter can't go poof or come out of nowhere.

2) I don't disagree that a 13t can hit somewhere around 250 hp

3) I am not completely disagreeing with leafy just didn't agree with his wording.

4) I don't care about whatever you have to say Dan. I'm going to go ahead and be a ***** and say your thread talked a bunch of big talk and then lacked any form of consistency. I would have been pretty happy to see some ridiculously awesome numbers out of your setup but you failed miserably. You weren't able to provide us with some sort of data that had a hint of credibility. We still never received the slip from the strip you said you'd provide. You could have written a fictional short story and I would have the same amount of faith of the information in it being true.

/done.
I'm going to go ahead and agree with you
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:35 PM   #35
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I never said torque. And sequential spark doesnt mean ****, we already have sequential injection. AVCS doenst matter at peak power (at least not on a td04 car). The displacement is different, the head flow is different the VE is different. None of those things matter at the choke point on the compressor. And the miata should be able to make MORE power at the wheels than a wrx because of less drivetrain loss. And because it can run leaner on gas with the same timing without knocking (most likely). In this one specific instance of running a compressor to choke, the engine its on doesnt matter for peak power, besides what RPM it happens at, in a miata it would appear to be around 7k rpm on a 13t or around 6500 rpm on a 13c.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:39 PM   #36
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the 13t struggles to make 250 (mustang dyno) on a bigger and higher flowing engine pushed to its limit
yet you're saying the 13c, which is smaller in both compressor and turbine, will make 250

okay
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:20 AM   #37
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To krisset fire and 18psi.

I dont care what either of you say, and 18psi going on with BS about a fake dyno, what a retard. It made 325whp which was way way more than you ever said was even close to possible with the dyno on auto, I have another car I recently did (turbo AW11) that has a completely different correction number again with the dyno untouched. I'm sorry the correction factor doesn't work the way you want to believe it does cos if it did it would prove you wrong. Which it does.

Ill bring you guys a slip in the future, when the owner has time for it, right now the car is busy winning a race at Sydney Motorsport Park so see how much I care.



Dann
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:33 AM   #38
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*yawn*

cool story bro
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:22 AM   #39
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Liberal arts majors vs people with real degrees round 10000000
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:27 AM   #40
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Perhaps we can try running this on tnt, see if we can hit 250whp.
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