Toasty - NB2 EFR XX58 Build via Kraken
09-25-2021, 11:48 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,380
Total Cats: 2
Stock 6 speed can have reliability issues above 300lb/ft of torque.
Some will go a bit higher but... Too many come apart above 300lbs/ft for me to intentionally run one above that load.
The MANNER in which they fail is the killer here... They either rip the teeth off the gear or push the syncro engagement ring off the gear in 4th.
This happens during torque application. Long after the gear has been engaged. There is no fixing this...
It could be fixed if you wanted to spend enough. New gears, stiffened case, etc...
Far more economically viable to install a BMW transmission (or something else) as many have done on high HP Miatas.
"Don't run Mazda 6 speeds above 300lbs/ft" is the rule in my book. A Miata with 300lbs/ft of torque is a VERY quick car already...
Some will go a bit higher but... Too many come apart above 300lbs/ft for me to intentionally run one above that load.
The MANNER in which they fail is the killer here... They either rip the teeth off the gear or push the syncro engagement ring off the gear in 4th.
This happens during torque application. Long after the gear has been engaged. There is no fixing this...
It could be fixed if you wanted to spend enough. New gears, stiffened case, etc...
Far more economically viable to install a BMW transmission (or something else) as many have done on high HP Miatas.
"Don't run Mazda 6 speeds above 300lbs/ft" is the rule in my book. A Miata with 300lbs/ft of torque is a VERY quick car already...
This is such a good point that it so often missed -- even 300whp is a quick little car (which would put wheel torque in the 260-290 range). We all (me included 100%) sometimes get wrapped up in power goal numbers, but I feel many have not even been in a miata with verified 300+, it really is something. The HP wars are in full swing with manufactures, hearing 300+ all over the place (my wifes cx30 turbo even is rated at 320ft/lb.........) and it kind of dilutes what 300hp really means in our world, but factoring in miatas low weight it really becomes QUICK. Local guy who "only" put down 300 at the wheels on a land and sea dyno is out there running with 600cc sport bikes up to 110mph or so. Think about that.
Enjoy.
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09-27-2021, 06:33 AM
#43
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Greatest Britain
Posts: 103
Total Cats: 23
@Rexican two of my EFR wastegate bracket allen bolts have backed out and one has fallen off completely. Did you find out what size and thread pitch they are please?
Did you figure out your overboost issues OP?
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10-01-2021, 11:23 AM
#44
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 41
Total Cats: 3
Not yet. I’m certain it’s the arm binding but haven’t had time to look. My daughter has been sick and we bought a house and currently selling our home. Hope to have this sorted out soon.
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08-21-2022, 07:00 AM
#45
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 41
Total Cats: 3
Phase 2 planning
Hi All,
im going to be moving to phase 2 some time
this winter with a goal of 350whp on 93 pump. Please chime in with any supporting parts if I’m missing something
1. eagle rods
2. coolant reroute from supermiata
3. Boundary oil pump - Is the super miata comparable or just stick with boundary unit?
4. ARP head studs
5. Machine shop honed
6. Mazda oem rings
7. New medium boost actuator for efr
things I don’t know about yet
fluid/ati super damper-
New bearings
New pistons
im just wondering if I’m spending all the money to get it done at a machine shop, why not spend the extra 500 and get pistons as well.
im going to be moving to phase 2 some time
this winter with a goal of 350whp on 93 pump. Please chime in with any supporting parts if I’m missing something
1. eagle rods
2. coolant reroute from supermiata
3. Boundary oil pump - Is the super miata comparable or just stick with boundary unit?
4. ARP head studs
5. Machine shop honed
6. Mazda oem rings
7. New medium boost actuator for efr
things I don’t know about yet
fluid/ati super damper-
New bearings
New pistons
im just wondering if I’m spending all the money to get it done at a machine shop, why not spend the extra 500 and get pistons as well.
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0
0
08-21-2022, 10:02 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 668
Total Cats: 190
TL/DR Forged needed above 200hp/liter
Balancer a requirement.
New bearings and proper clearances are better than old.
Tune and fuel anti-knock paramount.
Forged pistons should be included in a build of this magnitude.
I believe they will be more than $500.
Machine shop adds will be boring and honing 4 and this really should be done with a torque plate if you can source one.
A torque plate allows for head stud distortion to be included in the boring process. It mimics a head being installed before the machine work is done.
This improves bore concentricity in the finished engine at the top of the bore where it's the most critical.
Good torque plates are expensive; borrow, rent, or choose a machine shop that already has one.
A machine shop that specializes in Mazda builds should already have this. If they don't, I would not consider them a specialist.
I always buy 2 of the head gaskets I'm planning on using as one of them gets "used" for this process. The torque plate install should start with a virgin head gasket.
This already crushed gasket can also be used during any mockup that occur during the build.
One final note on forged or cast. Cast pistons (OEM Mazda) have multiple advantages over forged in a street engine. They require less bore to piston clearance (helps the rings last longer) and they don't expose the back of the oil control rings to windage.
They should work fine up to 200 hp/liter. You however are aiming for more than 200hp/liter and forged should be employed.
Forged pistons fail softly, they distort and bend but the pistons stays together usually.
Cast pistons fail by cracking, the pistons come apart like a hand grenade and often take everything else with them, block, head, and sometimes the turbo itself.
Forged are a bit stronger and stay together when disaster strikes. You should go forged if you're really shooting for 350 WHP.
I will sometimes re-use bearings on a non-performance build.
Inspection of the current bearings is the deciding factor. If they look perfect and the clearances are in a usable range, I might re-use them.
Re-using bearings always reduces "bearing crush" and makes the bearing slightly more likely to rotate or "spin" in their journals.
Reusing bearings is ALWAYS done to reduce buget and reducing buget in an all-out motor is often a mistake.
Normally I have the crank either turned down and polished (if it is required) or just polished if not. Polishing the crank journals removes a tiny bit of material and slightly increases bearing clearance.
This is usually a good thing as a performance engine runs at higher RPMs and temperatures than a stocker and the slightly loose tolerances gives you a bit more "wiggle room".
With looser tolerances I commonly increase oil viscosity. A serious motor will run 40 or 50 weight in my book.
If I do anything to the crank, I normally replace the bearings.
I prefer a stock crank that has been polished over a crank that has been turned down.
I've noticed many threads where people are looking for stock size performance bearings and cannot find them right now. This is a problem in the automotive parts world on anything.
I run an automotive AC shop and factory compressors are "national back order" more than they are in stock. Aftermarket compressors DO NOT live very long at all ...
My Father's 2017 Ram ProMaster needs a drivers window regulator. You can't get that from ANYONE right now. He's driving around with the window taped up.
Sourcing stuff right now can be a PIA...
Curly has good info on "race bearings" versus "street bearings" in some of his threads. He has had more than his fair share of trouble with "race bearings" and is leery of them.
Curly gives good advice, his posts are relevant, read them!
The BP is a vibrating little beast. The vibrations are so bad that most aftermarket intake manifolds have trouble with cracks.
Some tuners prefer an aftermarket balancer before tuning (believe this was a tuner at Flyin Miata that said this).
This says the vibrations are bad enough on a stock engine to effect dyno tuning. That is bad IMO.
I believe the balancer is the single most important part to reduce oil pump failures. The BE pumps are a requirement, but with a balancer.
For a street-car the Fluid Damper is the way to go. It's not as good as a race tuned balancer for extended high RPM use but it does a far better job of attenuating harmonics over a greater range at lower engine speed than a dedicated high RPM balancer.
I'm also a believer in a stock flywheel over a lightened one at this power level. The mass of the heavier flywheel helps absorb the individual power spikes that the pistons apply to the crank.
This doesn't really help the engine all that much, but it can reduce the shock loads delivered to the transmission and may increase transmission life.
I'd buget 1K for pistons (should be less than this),
500 for balancer, (new bolts here both main and the 4 6X1mm that hold the balancer to the crank gear.)
300 for bearings and crank polishing.
300 for balancing
I'd also balance the rods and pistons myself then have the crank/flywheel/PP balanced in this manner.
Crank first, then crank and flywheel (mark flywheel/crank for position or dowel flywheel/crank rear flange), then crank/flywheel/pressure plate (mark flywheel/PP position)
The flywheel and pressure plate should be neutral balance when new but they never really are. Everyone should have a small drill mark when finished.
Leave the disc out and don't try to balance with a fluid damper installed. It will not work as the fluid in the damper is supposed to move around to create a neutral balance anyway.
All of the above is critically dependent on your tune being correct. A proper conservative tune is more important to engine life than any other factor.
If you have to cut corners somewhere do not do it with the tune.
I'm building an MSM this winter and my power goals are less than 250ft/lbs on 93 and 300+ ft/lbs on E85.
Going with a better fuel is a requirement in my book over 300 whp. I'm hoping to get close to 300whp on pump gas and something higher on E85.
You can hit 350 with 93 but I believe you will have no margin for error. Get a tankful of less than 93 (tanker put 87 in wrong tank by accident) and you lose the motor.
Running high octane race gas or fuel additives are to be avoided if possible as a single mistake can cost you the motor.
Folks will tell you that E85 is not always 85% alcohol but that doesn't matter as much as it seems. The improved anti-knock characteristics apply above 50% alcohol content.
I'm shooting for 5 years/50k miles lifespan.
I want to build a single motor and not build three as I find the "gotchas" due to pushing the limits.
If Curly was closer to me, I think I'd have him tune it.
Food for thought...
Balancer a requirement.
New bearings and proper clearances are better than old.
Tune and fuel anti-knock paramount.
Forged pistons should be included in a build of this magnitude.
I believe they will be more than $500.
Machine shop adds will be boring and honing 4 and this really should be done with a torque plate if you can source one.
A torque plate allows for head stud distortion to be included in the boring process. It mimics a head being installed before the machine work is done.
This improves bore concentricity in the finished engine at the top of the bore where it's the most critical.
Good torque plates are expensive; borrow, rent, or choose a machine shop that already has one.
A machine shop that specializes in Mazda builds should already have this. If they don't, I would not consider them a specialist.
I always buy 2 of the head gaskets I'm planning on using as one of them gets "used" for this process. The torque plate install should start with a virgin head gasket.
This already crushed gasket can also be used during any mockup that occur during the build.
One final note on forged or cast. Cast pistons (OEM Mazda) have multiple advantages over forged in a street engine. They require less bore to piston clearance (helps the rings last longer) and they don't expose the back of the oil control rings to windage.
They should work fine up to 200 hp/liter. You however are aiming for more than 200hp/liter and forged should be employed.
Forged pistons fail softly, they distort and bend but the pistons stays together usually.
Cast pistons fail by cracking, the pistons come apart like a hand grenade and often take everything else with them, block, head, and sometimes the turbo itself.
Forged are a bit stronger and stay together when disaster strikes. You should go forged if you're really shooting for 350 WHP.
I will sometimes re-use bearings on a non-performance build.
Inspection of the current bearings is the deciding factor. If they look perfect and the clearances are in a usable range, I might re-use them.
Re-using bearings always reduces "bearing crush" and makes the bearing slightly more likely to rotate or "spin" in their journals.
Reusing bearings is ALWAYS done to reduce buget and reducing buget in an all-out motor is often a mistake.
Normally I have the crank either turned down and polished (if it is required) or just polished if not. Polishing the crank journals removes a tiny bit of material and slightly increases bearing clearance.
This is usually a good thing as a performance engine runs at higher RPMs and temperatures than a stocker and the slightly loose tolerances gives you a bit more "wiggle room".
With looser tolerances I commonly increase oil viscosity. A serious motor will run 40 or 50 weight in my book.
If I do anything to the crank, I normally replace the bearings.
I prefer a stock crank that has been polished over a crank that has been turned down.
I've noticed many threads where people are looking for stock size performance bearings and cannot find them right now. This is a problem in the automotive parts world on anything.
I run an automotive AC shop and factory compressors are "national back order" more than they are in stock. Aftermarket compressors DO NOT live very long at all ...
My Father's 2017 Ram ProMaster needs a drivers window regulator. You can't get that from ANYONE right now. He's driving around with the window taped up.
Sourcing stuff right now can be a PIA...
Curly has good info on "race bearings" versus "street bearings" in some of his threads. He has had more than his fair share of trouble with "race bearings" and is leery of them.
Curly gives good advice, his posts are relevant, read them!
The BP is a vibrating little beast. The vibrations are so bad that most aftermarket intake manifolds have trouble with cracks.
Some tuners prefer an aftermarket balancer before tuning (believe this was a tuner at Flyin Miata that said this).
This says the vibrations are bad enough on a stock engine to effect dyno tuning. That is bad IMO.
I believe the balancer is the single most important part to reduce oil pump failures. The BE pumps are a requirement, but with a balancer.
For a street-car the Fluid Damper is the way to go. It's not as good as a race tuned balancer for extended high RPM use but it does a far better job of attenuating harmonics over a greater range at lower engine speed than a dedicated high RPM balancer.
I'm also a believer in a stock flywheel over a lightened one at this power level. The mass of the heavier flywheel helps absorb the individual power spikes that the pistons apply to the crank.
This doesn't really help the engine all that much, but it can reduce the shock loads delivered to the transmission and may increase transmission life.
I'd buget 1K for pistons (should be less than this),
500 for balancer, (new bolts here both main and the 4 6X1mm that hold the balancer to the crank gear.)
300 for bearings and crank polishing.
300 for balancing
I'd also balance the rods and pistons myself then have the crank/flywheel/PP balanced in this manner.
Crank first, then crank and flywheel (mark flywheel/crank for position or dowel flywheel/crank rear flange), then crank/flywheel/pressure plate (mark flywheel/PP position)
The flywheel and pressure plate should be neutral balance when new but they never really are. Everyone should have a small drill mark when finished.
Leave the disc out and don't try to balance with a fluid damper installed. It will not work as the fluid in the damper is supposed to move around to create a neutral balance anyway.
All of the above is critically dependent on your tune being correct. A proper conservative tune is more important to engine life than any other factor.
If you have to cut corners somewhere do not do it with the tune.
I'm building an MSM this winter and my power goals are less than 250ft/lbs on 93 and 300+ ft/lbs on E85.
Going with a better fuel is a requirement in my book over 300 whp. I'm hoping to get close to 300whp on pump gas and something higher on E85.
You can hit 350 with 93 but I believe you will have no margin for error. Get a tankful of less than 93 (tanker put 87 in wrong tank by accident) and you lose the motor.
Running high octane race gas or fuel additives are to be avoided if possible as a single mistake can cost you the motor.
Folks will tell you that E85 is not always 85% alcohol but that doesn't matter as much as it seems. The improved anti-knock characteristics apply above 50% alcohol content.
I'm shooting for 5 years/50k miles lifespan.
I want to build a single motor and not build three as I find the "gotchas" due to pushing the limits.
If Curly was closer to me, I think I'd have him tune it.
Food for thought...
Reply
3
3
08-21-2022, 02:13 PM
#47
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Savannah Ga.
Posts: 365
Total Cats: 119
TL/DR Forged needed above 200hp/liter
Balancer a requirement.
New bearings and proper clearances are better than old.
Tune and fuel anti-knock paramount.
Forged pistons should be included in a build of this magnitude.
I believe they will be more than $500.
Machine shop adds will be boring and honing 4 and this really should be done with a torque plate if you can source one.
A torque plate allows for head stud distortion to be included in the boring process. It mimics a head being installed before the machine work is done.
This improves bore concentricity in the finished engine at the top of the bore where it's the most critical.
Good torque plates are expensive; borrow, rent, or choose a machine shop that already has one.
A machine shop that specializes in Mazda builds should already have this. If they don't, I would not consider them a specialist.
I always buy 2 of the head gaskets I'm planning on using as one of them gets "used" for this process. The torque plate install should start with a virgin head gasket.
This already crushed gasket can also be used during any mockup that occur during the build.
One final note on forged or cast. Cast pistons (OEM Mazda) have multiple advantages over forged in a street engine. They require less bore to piston clearance (helps the rings last longer) and they don't expose the back of the oil control rings to windage.
They should work fine up to 200 hp/liter. You however are aiming for more than 200hp/liter and forged should be employed.
Forged pistons fail softly, they distort and bend but the pistons stays together usually.
Cast pistons fail by cracking, the pistons come apart like a hand grenade and often take everything else with them, block, head, and sometimes the turbo itself.
Forged are a bit stronger and stay together when disaster strikes. You should go forged if you're really shooting for 350 WHP.
I will sometimes re-use bearings on a non-performance build.
Inspection of the current bearings is the deciding factor. If they look perfect and the clearances are in a usable range, I might re-use them.
Re-using bearings always reduces "bearing crush" and makes the bearing slightly more likely to rotate or "spin" in their journals.
Reusing bearings is ALWAYS done to reduce buget and reducing buget in an all-out motor is often a mistake.
Normally I have the crank either turned down and polished (if it is required) or just polished if not. Polishing the crank journals removes a tiny bit of material and slightly increases bearing clearance.
This is usually a good thing as a performance engine runs at higher RPMs and temperatures than a stocker and the slightly loose tolerances gives you a bit more "wiggle room".
With looser tolerances I commonly increase oil viscosity. A serious motor will run 40 or 50 weight in my book.
If I do anything to the crank, I normally replace the bearings.
I prefer a stock crank that has been polished over a crank that has been turned down.
I've noticed many threads where people are looking for stock size performance bearings and cannot find them right now. This is a problem in the automotive parts world on anything.
I run an automotive AC shop and factory compressors are "national back order" more than they are in stock. Aftermarket compressors DO NOT live very long at all ...
My Father's 2017 Ram ProMaster needs a drivers window regulator. You can't get that from ANYONE right now. He's driving around with the window taped up.
Sourcing stuff right now can be a PIA...
Curly has good info on "race bearings" versus "street bearings" in some of his threads. He has had more than his fair share of trouble with "race bearings" and is leery of them.
Curly gives good advice, his posts are relevant, read them!
The BP is a vibrating little beast. The vibrations are so bad that most aftermarket intake manifolds have trouble with cracks.
Some tuners prefer an aftermarket balancer before tuning (believe this was a tuner at Flyin Miata that said this).
This says the vibrations are bad enough on a stock engine to effect dyno tuning. That is bad IMO.
I believe the balancer is the single most important part to reduce oil pump failures. The BE pumps are a requirement, but with a balancer.
For a street-car the Fluid Damper is the way to go. It's not as good as a race tuned balancer for extended high RPM use but it does a far better job of attenuating harmonics over a greater range at lower engine speed than a dedicated high RPM balancer.
I'm also a believer in a stock flywheel over a lightened one at this power level. The mass of the heavier flywheel helps absorb the individual power spikes that the pistons apply to the crank.
This doesn't really help the engine all that much, but it can reduce the shock loads delivered to the transmission and may increase transmission life.
I'd buget 1K for pistons (should be less than this),
500 for balancer, (new bolts here both main and the 4 6X1mm that hold the balancer to the crank gear.)
300 for bearings and crank polishing.
300 for balancing
I'd also balance the rods and pistons myself then have the crank/flywheel/PP balanced in this manner.
Crank first, then crank and flywheel (mark flywheel/crank for position or dowel flywheel/crank rear flange), then crank/flywheel/pressure plate (mark flywheel/PP position)
The flywheel and pressure plate should be neutral balance when new but they never really are. Everyone should have a small drill mark when finished.
Leave the disc out and don't try to balance with a fluid damper installed. It will not work as the fluid in the damper is supposed to move around to create a neutral balance anyway.
All of the above is critically dependent on your tune being correct. A proper conservative tune is more important to engine life than any other factor.
If you have to cut corners somewhere do not do it with the tune.
I'm building an MSM this winter and my power goals are less than 250ft/lbs on 93 and 300+ ft/lbs on E85.
Going with a better fuel is a requirement in my book over 300 whp. I'm hoping to get close to 300whp on pump gas and something higher on E85.
You can hit 350 with 93 but I believe you will have no margin for error. Get a tankful of less than 93 (tanker put 87 in wrong tank by accident) and you lose the motor.
Running high octane race gas or fuel additives are to be avoided if possible as a single mistake can cost you the motor.
Folks will tell you that E85 is not always 85% alcohol but that doesn't matter as much as it seems. The improved anti-knock characteristics apply above 50% alcohol content.
I'm shooting for 5 years/50k miles lifespan.
I want to build a single motor and not build three as I find the "gotchas" due to pushing the limits.
If Curly was closer to me, I think I'd have him tune it.
Food for thought...
Balancer a requirement.
New bearings and proper clearances are better than old.
Tune and fuel anti-knock paramount.
Forged pistons should be included in a build of this magnitude.
I believe they will be more than $500.
Machine shop adds will be boring and honing 4 and this really should be done with a torque plate if you can source one.
A torque plate allows for head stud distortion to be included in the boring process. It mimics a head being installed before the machine work is done.
This improves bore concentricity in the finished engine at the top of the bore where it's the most critical.
Good torque plates are expensive; borrow, rent, or choose a machine shop that already has one.
A machine shop that specializes in Mazda builds should already have this. If they don't, I would not consider them a specialist.
I always buy 2 of the head gaskets I'm planning on using as one of them gets "used" for this process. The torque plate install should start with a virgin head gasket.
This already crushed gasket can also be used during any mockup that occur during the build.
One final note on forged or cast. Cast pistons (OEM Mazda) have multiple advantages over forged in a street engine. They require less bore to piston clearance (helps the rings last longer) and they don't expose the back of the oil control rings to windage.
They should work fine up to 200 hp/liter. You however are aiming for more than 200hp/liter and forged should be employed.
Forged pistons fail softly, they distort and bend but the pistons stays together usually.
Cast pistons fail by cracking, the pistons come apart like a hand grenade and often take everything else with them, block, head, and sometimes the turbo itself.
Forged are a bit stronger and stay together when disaster strikes. You should go forged if you're really shooting for 350 WHP.
I will sometimes re-use bearings on a non-performance build.
Inspection of the current bearings is the deciding factor. If they look perfect and the clearances are in a usable range, I might re-use them.
Re-using bearings always reduces "bearing crush" and makes the bearing slightly more likely to rotate or "spin" in their journals.
Reusing bearings is ALWAYS done to reduce buget and reducing buget in an all-out motor is often a mistake.
Normally I have the crank either turned down and polished (if it is required) or just polished if not. Polishing the crank journals removes a tiny bit of material and slightly increases bearing clearance.
This is usually a good thing as a performance engine runs at higher RPMs and temperatures than a stocker and the slightly loose tolerances gives you a bit more "wiggle room".
With looser tolerances I commonly increase oil viscosity. A serious motor will run 40 or 50 weight in my book.
If I do anything to the crank, I normally replace the bearings.
I prefer a stock crank that has been polished over a crank that has been turned down.
I've noticed many threads where people are looking for stock size performance bearings and cannot find them right now. This is a problem in the automotive parts world on anything.
I run an automotive AC shop and factory compressors are "national back order" more than they are in stock. Aftermarket compressors DO NOT live very long at all ...
My Father's 2017 Ram ProMaster needs a drivers window regulator. You can't get that from ANYONE right now. He's driving around with the window taped up.
Sourcing stuff right now can be a PIA...
Curly has good info on "race bearings" versus "street bearings" in some of his threads. He has had more than his fair share of trouble with "race bearings" and is leery of them.
Curly gives good advice, his posts are relevant, read them!
The BP is a vibrating little beast. The vibrations are so bad that most aftermarket intake manifolds have trouble with cracks.
Some tuners prefer an aftermarket balancer before tuning (believe this was a tuner at Flyin Miata that said this).
This says the vibrations are bad enough on a stock engine to effect dyno tuning. That is bad IMO.
I believe the balancer is the single most important part to reduce oil pump failures. The BE pumps are a requirement, but with a balancer.
For a street-car the Fluid Damper is the way to go. It's not as good as a race tuned balancer for extended high RPM use but it does a far better job of attenuating harmonics over a greater range at lower engine speed than a dedicated high RPM balancer.
I'm also a believer in a stock flywheel over a lightened one at this power level. The mass of the heavier flywheel helps absorb the individual power spikes that the pistons apply to the crank.
This doesn't really help the engine all that much, but it can reduce the shock loads delivered to the transmission and may increase transmission life.
I'd buget 1K for pistons (should be less than this),
500 for balancer, (new bolts here both main and the 4 6X1mm that hold the balancer to the crank gear.)
300 for bearings and crank polishing.
300 for balancing
I'd also balance the rods and pistons myself then have the crank/flywheel/PP balanced in this manner.
Crank first, then crank and flywheel (mark flywheel/crank for position or dowel flywheel/crank rear flange), then crank/flywheel/pressure plate (mark flywheel/PP position)
The flywheel and pressure plate should be neutral balance when new but they never really are. Everyone should have a small drill mark when finished.
Leave the disc out and don't try to balance with a fluid damper installed. It will not work as the fluid in the damper is supposed to move around to create a neutral balance anyway.
All of the above is critically dependent on your tune being correct. A proper conservative tune is more important to engine life than any other factor.
If you have to cut corners somewhere do not do it with the tune.
I'm building an MSM this winter and my power goals are less than 250ft/lbs on 93 and 300+ ft/lbs on E85.
Going with a better fuel is a requirement in my book over 300 whp. I'm hoping to get close to 300whp on pump gas and something higher on E85.
You can hit 350 with 93 but I believe you will have no margin for error. Get a tankful of less than 93 (tanker put 87 in wrong tank by accident) and you lose the motor.
Running high octane race gas or fuel additives are to be avoided if possible as a single mistake can cost you the motor.
Folks will tell you that E85 is not always 85% alcohol but that doesn't matter as much as it seems. The improved anti-knock characteristics apply above 50% alcohol content.
I'm shooting for 5 years/50k miles lifespan.
I want to build a single motor and not build three as I find the "gotchas" due to pushing the limits.
If Curly was closer to me, I think I'd have him tune it.
Food for thought...
Personally if it were me and starting to shoot for more power I would go ahead and over build now while its apart. You may find when you reach 350hp level you want more. When I first started my miata pile I intended to be content at around 250-275 lol..
Ninja is definitely correct on the way pistons fail cast vs forged. Back in the day when I first started fooling with turbos on small block chevys and blowing through a cab I burnt a number of forged pistons. Literally looked like someone took a burning torch to one of the corners and started to melt, however they stayed together and block was still usable after piston was replaced. Prior to that I had a few cast piston failures on other motors when used them with a power adder, usually nitrous in those days, the piston would often break or crack. I remember doing a big block chevy with hypereutectic pistons and planned at the time to not run a power adder. Of course I added a power adder later though LOL... Piston fell apart leaving just a pin on the end of the rod, of course the block was ruined as well.
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08-23-2022, 02:15 PM
#48
@rexican, I see you are located in Frederick MD, if you have any interest in riding in a 400+whp EFR miata HMU, I live in Westminster, so not terribly far. Also if you ever need a hand with anything I would be more than happy to open up the shop to lend a hand. I have a lift and all the tools you need. Good luck on phase 2 of the build!
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