Turbo setup for rally cross/autocross - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2013, 03:59 PM   #41
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 195
Total Cats: 5
Default

OK, got it, Ill do the rods !

Pistons worth it too ??

Had some questions about the Manifold - saw somebody recommend cast - for fast spool is short and unequal length a better trade off than long and equal length ? What are some good mani's to look for ? I have no Power steering or AC to worry about.

Thanks !
TheV's is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 06:02 PM   #42
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 4,199
Total Cats: 260
Default

The tradeoff between a cast and tubular manifold at those power levels and that turbo size would be minimal. You wouldn't notice a difference.

I recommend cast with inconel studs just for pure durability.
Erat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 06:19 PM   #43
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,928
Total Cats: 526
Default

Cast with inconel studs is ideal for durability. That kit I keep referring in the classifieds is such a well-built piece though that I really think you'd have just as good of luck with that, and it's cheaper than a new cast manifold. In terms of performance, Dillon is right -- you're gonna hit your goals either way, likely won't make a huge difference.

Now buy something.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 06:55 PM   #44
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Eureka, Ca
Posts: 150
Total Cats: -21
Default

Considering you're necessity to build an engine and your power goals and the fact that it well be hard to meet that at your budget period. Why not consider a 1.8 custom made form Rebello racing in Antioch Ca. They can get 190 hp to the wheels with it naturally aspirated. Super reliability lots of bottom end. They use a long rod redesign(honda con rods) with custom pistons and it revs to 8k at $4700.
They have been making some of the absolute finest most reliable high hp engines for SCCA racing sense 1984. There number is (925) 754-4871
old school is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 07:16 PM   #45
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,686
Total Cats: 1,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old school View Post
Considering you're necessity to build an engine and your power goals and the fact that it well be hard to meet that at your budget period. Why not consider a 1.8 custom made form Rebello racing in Antioch Ca. They can get 190 hp to the wheels with it naturally aspirated. Super reliability lots of bottom end. They use a long rod redesign(honda con rods) with custom pistons and it revs to 8k at $4700.
They have been making some of the absolute finest most reliable high hp engines for SCCA racing sense 1984. There number is (925) 754-4871
Or you could make 230hp on a stock engine with a $200 turbo, lol.

Back to the original poster, you really don't need to do anything to the stock engine for 200whp. I just thought you were doing it already because of one of your previous posts. I would choose the Boundary oil pump over the rods if it were me. The rods take a beating from too much engine torque or overrevving the engine from a missed shift. The oil pump gears fail from prolonged higher than stock rpms (racing) or when there is too much engine torque. Since you will not be able to make too much engine torque with a 2554 size turbo, I wouldn't worry about that so much.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 08:26 PM   #46
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
gorillazfan1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Harrisburg, Pa
Posts: 582
Total Cats: 8
Default

How long do you drive in a avg. rally cross? Just wondering because if you do indeed have fab skills or know people with them you can make some pretty decent manifolds for not much money and they should be reliable. I've never had an issue with mine (though I haven't autocrossed it or anything ever). I do beat on it and daily it with no issues. Also in its first iteration (log with essentially a gt2554) it was ridiculously responsive. Oh yeah that was with the stock exhaust too, made for good time toying with unsuspecting cars.
gorillazfan1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 09:03 PM   #47
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,178
Total Cats: 267
Default

IMO he will see more WOT time than any street-driven or autocrossed car. He needs to build to track levels of reliability.
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 09:18 PM   #48
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
gorillazfan1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Harrisburg, Pa
Posts: 582
Total Cats: 8
Default

Even so if the welder is good couldn't that be a viable option. With good hardware then?
gorillazfan1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 09:36 PM   #49
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brownsburg,IN
Posts: 800
Total Cats: 58
Default

Do not forget to put some money on your budget to get some dyno tuning for ignition, is cheap detonation insurance and will get you the MOST from your setup.
HHammerly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 09:49 PM   #50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 195
Total Cats: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gorillazfan1023 View Post
How long do you drive in a avg. rally cross? Just wondering because if you do indeed have fab skills or know people with them you can make some pretty decent manifolds for not much money and they should be reliable. I've never had an issue with mine (though I haven't autocrossed it or anything ever). I do beat on it and daily it with no issues. Also in its first iteration (log with essentially a gt2554) it was ridiculously responsive. Oh yeah that was with the stock exhaust too, made for good time toying with unsuspecting cars.
Rally crosses are generally 45-60 secs per run, done in groups of 6. The bigger concern is Tsd rally, generally 300 miles, could be 10-12 hours of hard driving (ahem, "brisk" driving) in the middle of nowhere....sometimes in the middle of the night...with another 2-300 mile drive home..I'm favoring reliability at some expense of output, and like the cast manifold idea, even though I think fabricating something would be cool....
TheV's is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 02:06 AM   #51
Senior Member
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Big Bear Ca
Posts: 990
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
If your budget is that modest I would suggest a used manifold, inconel hardware, and an ebay journal bearing turbo of the equivalent size to the 2554. You could pick up the ebay turbo brand new for $200-250. Or you could take your chances with a used gt25 (same size, different name for it) from a Nissan SR20($50-125 depending on quality) and/or rebuild one. Rebuild kits are $40-50 on ebay.

Rebuilding the engine will cost you a minimum of $1800 with forged rods, pistons, Boundary Engineering oil pump, gaskets and machining. A MegaSquirt will set you back $400-800 depending on what and where you get it once you add an IAT and such. Wideband O2 will be $150ish. You will need injectors and they aren't free, either. It adds up quick.
I just may have one of these sitting around. Bought it off splitime years ago, it's just been sitting in the garage. It's a Stock RB20DET t3 flanged (t28). It comes with first 8-10" of DP. PM me if interested, I'll make ya a deal.

Here is the original thread:
RB20DET T3 Turbo - Miata Turbo Forum - The Miataturbo of miata turbo sites
dstn2bdoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 12:29 PM   #52
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Why do you need more power for rally-x? I did my first one this weekend in the wrx and I had WAY TOO MUCH power. Road dyno makes it out to something like ~320ftlbs/240hp, yes I make ALL THE TORQUE, because 2.5L with td04. And thats a heavy AWD car, I basically couldn't use more than ~1/2 throttle without just spinning up the red line. If anything for a miata, I would just copy the 949 rental engine build, since your main forms of racing involve having near zero grip or doing exactly the speed limit of the road for 12 hours.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #53
Junior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Detroit Burbs
Posts: 300
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Why do you need more power for rally-x? I did my first one this weekend in the wrx and I had WAY TOO MUCH power. Road dyno makes it out to something like ~320ftlbs/240hp, yes I make ALL THE TORQUE, because 2.5L with td04. And thats a heavy AWD car, I basically couldn't use more than ~1/2 throttle without just spinning up the red line. If anything for a miata, I would just copy the 949 rental engine build, since your main forms of racing involve having near zero grip or doing exactly the speed limit of the road for 12 hours.
In rallycross having too much power is just enough. The perfect powertrain would be able to spin the tires in any gear (up to 3rd) on any surface at any speed, and torque response would be both instantaneous and very linear. Sounds like either a larger displacement engine (V6?) or a supercharger would meet (or come close to) these requirements.

Turbo - not so much.

Frank_and_Beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 02:57 PM   #54
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Morrison, CO
Posts: 473
Total Cats: 46
Default

The difference between 200whp and 250whp for a rallyx Miata IMO isn't worth it.

I'd say instead of building a motor, you should get a rock solid turbo setup and spend the extra work bracing it and preparing it to take big bumps and vibrations. Aim for like 200whp and use a stock motor, if it blows just replace it with another $500 motor. The last thing you want is your manifold cracking off or the turbo coming loose or piping coming loose.
vitamin j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 03:01 PM   #55
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,928
Total Cats: 526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
The difference between 200whp and 250whp for a rallyx Miata IMO isn't worth it.

I'd say instead of building a motor, you should get a rock solid turbo setup and spend the extra work bracing it and preparing it to take big bumps and vibrations. Aim for like 200whp and use a stock motor, if it blows just replace it with another $500 motor. The last thing you want is your manifold cracking off or the turbo coming loose or piping coming loose.
I think you've hit the nail on the head right here.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 03:59 PM   #56
Junior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Detroit Burbs
Posts: 300
Total Cats: 3
Default

Here's another pic of me flogging the $300 miata (and sayin' "needs mo' powah!!!):

Attached Thumbnails
Turbo setup for rally cross/autocross-normal_img_4173.jpg  
Frank_and_Beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #57
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

Who is the governing body for this slice of motorsport? IE: Where can I find more info or events in my area.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 06:08 PM   #58
Junior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Detroit Burbs
Posts: 300
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Who is the governing body for this slice of motorsport? IE: Where can I find more info or events in my area.
The Sports Car Club of America - RallyCross
Frank_and_Beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 08:23 PM   #59
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 4,199
Total Cats: 260
Default

There are quite a few in Michigan. But it think that's due to the amount of subarus in this state, everyone and their cousin has a subaru around here.
Erat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 08:49 PM   #60
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

Yeah, looks like things are pretty sparse in my part of CA. Cal Club (CSCCR) looks like they run pretty frequently, zilch in San Francisco (SFR). Of course, most of the calendar is still broken on the SFR site, so god only knows. NorPacDiv shows ONE event in CA... from 2010

This looks like a "what to do with your winter beater during the summer" racing series. I guess that explains why its not so popular out here on the left coast, other than the mossbacked cascadians.

Anyway, carry on. Don't let me derail things.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
ISO 1.6 turbo cast iron manifold cale saurage DIY Turbo Discussion 16 10-01-2015 12:25 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:52 PM.