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Old 12-14-2008, 08:56 PM   #1
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Default Vmount or new radiator?

So I'm having issues with keeping the oil and water temperatures down in my greddy'd 93. I had an aluminum radiator, but a girl wrecked my car and destroyed the radiator before I got a chance to test it on track ... so I put in an all-metal automatic radiator because it was cheap along with a gigantor oil cooler. Anyways, I know one of my problems is airflow to the radiator and oil cooler, even though I put in a splitter/scoop and put on a stock driver-side fan and a thin fan on the passenger side. It helped immensely, but not well enough to stay out on track for a decent amount of time.

So, here's what I'm thinking. I think it's possible to v-mount the current radiator and intercooler with the oil cooler mounted vertically (Definitely going to need to cut out a lot of metal up front, weld in new supports, and cut a hole in the hood for the intercooler vent). The other option is to go with another aluminum radiator (CXracing looks good from another thread) with the oil cooler moved to where I can put a small fan on it.

What would be the best (not the cheapest) option? I think vmounting everything would be the best course of action because everything will get fresh air and if I do everything correctly, an aluminum radiator should bolt right in.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:15 PM   #2
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how about this? back and front pictures with Miata brackets, perfect fit. Let me know if you are interested.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:17 PM   #3
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how about this? back and front pictures with Miata brackets, perfect fit. Let me know if you are interested.
that is some crazy *** ****, never thought of mounting it that way before
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:20 PM   #4
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I was thinking about a side-by-side setup, but I want to stick with the intercooler that I have. Data logs show that the intake temps don't vary very much when I'm racing.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:21 PM   #5
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i'd say make a nice V-mount with a CXRacing radiator, I think it was splitime that had a build thread on his, and it looked ace
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:26 PM   #6
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I think it was splitime that had a build thread on his, and it looked ace

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Old 12-14-2008, 10:37 PM   #7
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Do you have a coolant re route? I wouldn't be suprised if that fixed your problems. I can't get my temps past 190* with a re route vented hood and koyo rad.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:44 PM   #8
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I'm famous! Woot!
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by db84drteg View Post
blahblahblah i am running a stock radiator blahblahblahblah
This is your problem. STOCK Miatas overheat on stock radiators on track. Don't know why you think you can turbocharge it and get away with a stock rad, even if it is all metal and from an automatic.

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What would be the best (not the cheapest) option?
A big radiator, first. If that doesn't do it, a reroute will help, then a vented hood. Then a bigger radiator, then ducting. V-mounting is an awful lot of work to solve a problem that can really be solved with stock-location everything.

Last edited by Savington; 12-15-2008 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:29 AM   #10
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This is your problem. STOCK Miatas overheat on stock radiators on track. Don't know why you think you can turbocharge it and get away with a stock rad, even if it is all metal and from an automatic.

What would be the best (not the cheapest) option?

A big radiator, first. If that doesn't do it, a reroute will help, then a vented hood. Then a bigger radiator, then ducting. V-mounting is an awful lot of work to solve a problem that can really be solved with stock-location everything.
+1. I'll say this is pretty much spot on and in order. Only thing I'd add is to first, flush the system WELL. And proper ducting will make a big difference too.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:06 AM   #11
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Savington: I don't know why every time I read one of your posts, even from when you first signed up for this board, it sounds condescending. Maybe it's me ... but I don't think so. If I'm not mistaken, I think that you think that your post count makes you superior to the "noobs" with a lower post count.

I don't know where you hear that stock miatas overheat on track with the stock radiator, because in my experience with spec miatas and street miatas that have gone out on track, the thicker automatic radiator along with the stock ducting box, the foam strip on top of the radiator, and undertray have hardly had an issue, even in the 100+ weather we have in the middle of the summer. Like Pat said, a fresh flush helps with the cooling efficiency ... so I guess the cars you've seen (or heard of?) have never been maintained?

Regardless, according to your list, the next step in the progression of my cooling issue is to get the larger radiator. I've done the coolant reroute, I have louvers in my hood, I run fresh water wetter with some rad. fluid and water every year, and good lord, I can't even tell how much ducting I've done on the nose of my car. However, I believe that the automatic radiator has enough ability to cool a turbocharged car if there's nothing impeding the airflow through it.

Yes, Vmounting is an awful amount of work, but it's free work. With all the metal I have to buy to mount everything up and redo the ducting and bumper mounting, I think it can be done for much less than $100. That's why I asked for the best solution, not the "cheapest."
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:14 AM   #12
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AND it would look kickass, so do it. The more builds I see done with the V-Mount the more I am tempted to do it myself in the future.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:21 AM   #13
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haha, yeah, vmounts look badass. If I do it, I don't think I could go around masquerading like I'm not turbocharged anymore, though =P
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:11 AM   #14
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Personally, I would first try buying a cxracing aluminum radiator from ebay ($160 shipped).

Then when(if) that doesn't work I would fab up the V- mount and have a nice thick radiator to build it around.


Good luck!, vmounts are awesome.
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Old 12-15-2008, 05:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db84drteg View Post
Savington: I don't know why every time I read one of your posts, even from when you first signed up for this board, it sounds condescending. Maybe it's me ... but I don't think so. If I'm not mistaken, I think that you think that your post count makes you superior to the "noobs" with a lower post count.
Sorry. I definitely come across that way. Sometimes I mean it (if you blatantly haven't searched or you're Cuban or something), sometimes I am blowing off a little steam. I definitely use this forum to do that, especially in the last year or so.

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I don't know where you hear that stock miatas overheat on track with the stock radiator, because in my experience with spec miatas and street miatas that have gone out on track, the thicker automatic radiator along with the stock ducting box, the foam strip on top of the radiator, and undertray have hardly had an issue, even in the 100+ weather we have in the middle of the summer. Like Pat said, a fresh flush helps with the cooling efficiency ... so I guess the cars you've seen (or heard of?) have never been maintained?
Look at it this way: SMs use 37mm Koyos to reduce water weight. I'd bet an auto rad has less capacity than a 37mm Koyo. If SMs didn't overheat with stock radiators, they'd all use them because it's less weight over the nose. But they do overheat with stock radiators, so they run 37mm Koyos (and some cars are forced to run 55s).

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Originally Posted by db84drteg View Post
Regardless, according to your list, the next step in the progression of my cooling issue is to get the larger radiator. I've done the coolant reroute, I have louvers in my hood, I run fresh water wetter with some rad. fluid and water every year, and good lord, I can't even tell how much ducting I've done on the nose of my car. However, I believe that the automatic radiator has enough ability to cool a turbocharged car if there's nothing impeding the airflow through it.
I'd disagree strongly. The sheer quantity of water that's available to you when you upgrade the radiator makes all the difference in the world. I don't have a reroute, or a vented hood, and I'm running twice the boost you are, and the only time I get overheating issues is when it's 100+ degrees out, and that's only on track. This is with a monster 2" CSF aluminum radiator and a 22" intercooler core blocking the flow. I have the stock undertray in place, but that's about it. Hell, the fans aren't even wired in parallel.

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Yes, Vmounting is an awful amount of work, but it's free work. With all the metal I have to buy to mount everything up and redo the ducting and bumper mounting, I think it can be done for much less than $100. That's why I asked for the best solution, not the "cheapest."
It's working hard, not smart. This is like driving a trim nail with a 12lb sledgehammer. Yeah, you can do it, and it won't cost any more than using a normal hammer, but you're just making yourself do more work than is necessary. I'm lazy as all hell, so if someone asked me if I wanted to tear the entire front end out of the car and V-mount my IC, or drop a couple bucks on a nice, big aluminum radiator that would for sure solve the issue, I'd probably spring for the radiator. You've already got a good pressure differential through the radiator with the vented hood; I'd be real wary of doing all the work, throwing the same puny rad back in, and having the damn thing still overheat.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:57 AM   #16
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Look at it this way: SMs use 37mm Koyos to reduce water weight. I'd bet an auto rad has less capacity than a 37mm Koyo. If SMs didn't overheat with stock radiators, they'd all use them because it's less weight over the nose. But they do overheat with stock radiators, so they run 37mm Koyos (and some cars are forced to run 55s).
I've been helping build spec miatas for the last 8 years now and in the fleet I helped build, most people spring for the thicker aluminum radiators because they want to be safe. Really, though, some of the cars that don't have aluminum radiators use the automatic radiator just fine, but we always put the stock ducting box in and seal everything up. Of course, these aren't the ones used for endurance racing, but they're out there a lot longer than I am (an hour vs my 5 minutes).

Quote:
the only time I get overheating issues is when it's 100+ degrees out, and that's only on track. This is with a monster 2" CSF aluminum radiator and a 22" intercooler core blocking the flow. I have the stock undertray in place, but that's about it. Hell, the fans aren't even wired in parallel.
Interesting, besides the cooling differences, we have pretty much the same setup, but I'm at 12psi. What kind of intercooler do you have and how close is it to the opening in the mouth of the car? I have a 24x7x3" bar/plate core placed as far forward into the opening of the mouth as I could put it. I only ask because of the intercooler's effect on the velocity and temperature of the air reaching the radiator.

I guess the proper plan of action would be to get the CXracing radiator and then vmount later if it doesn't work out as well as I had hoped.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:35 PM   #17
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For reference... on track 20+minute sessions I was within 5 degrees of ambient air temperature in 80+ degree weather. Coolant temps never moved either.

This is with my Vmount and reroute. Big 3" core ebay intercooler and a koyo race radiator for a DC2 integra. You can't fit bigger without removing parts of the frame
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:21 PM   #18
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Hahaha, removing parts of the frame isn't a fun thought =P
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