What do you think of this coolant reroute idea? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-24-2007, 06:13 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Total Cats: 0
Default What do you think of this coolant reroute idea?

As seen on miata.net

What do you think of this idea I came up with? It seems clever to me and easy to implement, but would this break anything? I have attached an image, please check it out.

The idea is that since there is more than average amounts of pressure just after the water pump, why not take some of that extra pressure and use it to feed the heater? And instead of taking water out of the back of the head to feed the heater, why not use that hole to feed the back of the head from the radiator?

It seems this would
-cool the back of the head
-maintain more flow of coolant through the engine
-keep the thermostat at the hottest part of the engine
-retain stock heater functionality
-be easy to implement

Potential downsides?
-bottom of engine gets mostly hot coolant left over from the heater core
-engine temperature reads lower because coolest water is entering back of head near sensor
-not enough coolant reaches radiator because of T junction after pump

Solution to downsides
-bottom of engine not getting most of heat anyway, ignore problem because circulation will mix the warm water from the bottom with the cool stuff flowing through the top
-use small diameter hose to restrict flow to heater so most goes to radiator
-ignore engine temperature, use something like CHT or oil temp anyway


Last edited by beerslurpy; 07-24-2007 at 06:32 PM.
beerslurpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 11:16 PM   #2
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

And the inlet of the water pump only sees the heater core?
Then all of your flow will be through the heater. That's very bad, because the heater is restrictive.
And then your coolant splits between the radiator and the heater. Very very bad.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 12:26 AM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Total Cats: 0
Default

Wait, isn't the water pump on the front of the engine, pushing water forward to the top of the radiator?

My intent was to have the heater core dump into the mixing manifold as normal and have it fed from the tube between the water pump and the front of the radiator. I thought that was the outlet, not the inlet of the pump. Am I wrong?

The vast majority of water flow should be through the top radiator hose with only a little bled off to feed the heater core. The restriction of the heater core helps stop it from stealing all the water flow intended for the radiator.
beerslurpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 12:30 AM   #4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Total Cats: 0
Default

Oh and thanks for supporting ron paul.
beerslurpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 12:36 AM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Total Cats: 0
Default

Oh wait, I see what you mean. I thought the pump sucked in from the whole engine and spat it into the radiator. If it sucks in from the mixing manifold and spits it into the block and radiator simultaneously, that complicates things.

I saw your car in CA like 5 years ago but I can't remember what you did to the cooling system.
beerslurpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 03:09 AM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
akaryrye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,526
Total Cats: 0
Default

I dont think that this setup would work, the inlet to the waterpump needs to be fed from the bottom of the radiator. I dunno how the normal coolant reroutes work, but I think it would work better to leave the routing from the bottom of the radiator stock. For the top of the radiator, you would pull the water from the back of the head, use a thermostat in line, and block the front thermostat outlet.

Name:  coolantreroutemod.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  41.5 KB
akaryrye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 03:37 AM   #7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Total Cats: 0
Default

Thanks dude. I figured it out after talking to some people on the other board.

My only problem now is how to do the reroute without having to remove the engine.
beerslurpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 09:33 AM   #8
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
brgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,275
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerslurpy View Post
Thanks dude. I figured it out after talking to some people on the other board.

My only problem now is how to do the reroute without having to remove the engine.
Working on the reroute as well and while you don't have to remove the engine, it does make it infinitely easier to remove at least the head.
brgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 09:52 AM   #9
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akaryrye View Post
I dont think that this setup would work, the inlet to the waterpump needs to be fed from the bottom of the radiator. I dunno how the normal coolant reroutes work, but I think it would work better to leave the routing from the bottom of the radiator stock. For the top of the radiator, you would pull the water from the back of the head, use a thermostat in line, and block the front thermostat outlet.

I've used this pattern on 1.6 and 1.8 with good results. Just don't go low with the return from the back of the head to the radiator or you will run into air blockage problems.

Also drill a 3/16" approx hole in the thermostat flange so that constant water temperature is seen by the thermostat and it can react correctly.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 10:38 AM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Isn't coolant coming OUT of the heater core cooler than coolant going IN? The heater core is just a radiator and a fan in an enclosed box. Air flows over the hot radiator and is blown into the cabin, right?
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 10:54 AM   #11
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Isn't coolant coming OUT of the heater core cooler than coolant going IN? The heater core is just a radiator and a fan in an enclosed box. Air flows over the hot radiator and is blown into the cabin, right?
Totally correct. We have two radiators on our Miata. The problem that we correct with the reroute is flow. One radiator(the heater core) operates until we reach the thermostat temperature, and we then open the second radiator(the real one).

When the thermostat in the stock position opens, a lot of the flow can bypass the engine. With this reroute, we force the full pump output through the engine to both the radiators when the thermostat is open.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 10:59 AM   #12
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

If you're going to go ahead and do it, wouldn't it also be wise to route the coolant out of the heater core between the radiator and thermostat to ensure only "cooled" coolant goes back into the block?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 11:15 AM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
brgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,275
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Just don't go low with the return from the back of the head to the radiator or you will run into air blockage problems.
Crap, what kind of air blockage problems? Would a sloping return help any? I ask b/c I was planning on going low....dang.
brgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 11:23 AM   #14
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
If you're going to go ahead and do it, wouldn't it also be wise to route the coolant out of the heater core between the radiator and thermostat to ensure only "cooled" coolant goes back into the block?
It would take longer to warm up the heater and the motor. Probably fine for track cars and high hp sunday drivers. Probably not ideal for daily drivers.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 11:33 AM   #15
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brgracer View Post
Crap, what kind of air blockage problems? Would a sloping return help any? I ask b/c I was planning on going low....dang.
Coming off the back of the block and going real low will give you trouble "burping" out the air when filling with coolant.

On my 1.6 I came out the back on the passenger side with a line even with the back outlet and kept it relatively level coming forward.

On a friends 1.8 we came out above the turbo(low MSM) and forward. The piping looks like **** right now, but can be dressed up shortly.

I understand that Turbo Tim went lower and hit problems.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 11:55 AM   #16
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

The too low issue is why I have a very high filler location... and my coolant reroute runs over top of my Intake Manifold. Without a proper burp... coolant systems can get quite grumpy.
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 03:27 PM   #17
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerslurpy View Post
My only problem now is how to do the reroute without having to remove the engine.
Why would you need to remove the engine?
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 03:44 PM   #18
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerslurpy View Post
Oh and thanks for supporting ron paul.
Don't thank me, I did it for selfish reasons. I want taxes to go down, the economy to improve, the Compound Interest Paradox understood, the lobbyists to lose influence, Habeas Corpus to be re-instated, the Constitution followed, and the government to shrink and keep its nose out of my daily life.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 04:29 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
On a friends 1.8 we came out above the turbo(low MSM) and forward. The piping looks like **** right now, but can be dressed up shortly.
I dressed his up somewhat.

Quote:
I understand that Turbo Tim went lower and hit problems.
Yep. It takes me forever to burp the air out of my engine. I run the head-to-radiator line on the passenger side, under the intake manifold. I will be redoing it all to be more horizontal & stainless when I install my new intake manifold.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 08:59 PM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PA/DC
Posts: 468
Total Cats: 0
Default

Someone plez post sum pics!!! REAL PICS!!!
Snowsurfer03 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 12-13-2017 10:04 PM
MSPNPPro-MM0105: Coolant Temperature Output slomiata MEGAsquirt 5 10-07-2015 02:11 PM
Is my swirl pot design okay? FrankB Race Prep 10 10-02-2015 10:00 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
Nuke Mars! Joe Perez Current Events, News, Politics 8 09-30-2015 05:41 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 AM.