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Old 07-04-2007, 08:52 PM   #1
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Got my car tuned today. It's really close, but conservative and there's an issue with the enrichments that needs to be sorted out. It laid down 202rwhp, but it was detonating in the 4500-5000 range so we had to back the timing down just a tiny bit. Ended up at 198rwhp at 13psi, which seems low even for my tiny-*** turbo.

What I'm really worried about are the timing maps, though. The tuner mentioned that if he had seen these, he would have said the car wouldn't run in boost, but it makes power and pulls nicely to redline.

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I figured I'd be around 220rwhp at least, even on 91 pisswater. I will try to post a 3rd gear pull from 2k to redline so you all can see what the AFRs are doing. I can't help but thinking there's something I've missed in the general timing setup that is holding the power back. I know I have a bit of power to pick up just in the AFRs, but what worries me is when they get any leaner than about 10.5 in the midrange, the car starts detonating. The torque curve obviously suffers because of this; there's a noticeable dip right where my car should be hauling ***.

Any ideas?
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:17 PM   #2
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Something is wrong... timing is off somewhere. Mechanically you should verify the timing at RPM under boost.

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Old 07-04-2007, 11:02 PM   #3
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something is off. conservative would be 10° not 1°. The non-boosted rows look fine.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:20 PM   #4
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did you set the timing when you first installed it? like brain said, that is WAYYY off.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:36 PM   #5
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+1 confirm the timming angle with MS vs actual.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:38 PM   #6
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I set the timing according to Jerry's instructions. Base timing is set at 15deg mechanical, but with the MS that doesn't (shouldn't?) matter. You just set the timing to a constant 10 degrees with the MS, and then use a timing light and the trigger angle setting on the MS to make the mark on the front of the motor agree. Then you set it back to -10 to let it use the maps again. My trigger angle is set at 52 degrees.

Mark, I'd assume the only way to do that is with a dyno?
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:43 AM   #7
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if the baseline still says 15 with the MS on 10 at idle you have a problem. did you set the timming to 10 and not -10 ? When timming the car something is wrong here for sure.
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Old 07-05-2007, 05:59 AM   #8
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I'll do it again when I'm back at home. I set the MS from -10 to 10, then checked the timing with a timing light. It was dead nuts at 10 with a trigger angle of 52, so I set the MS back to -10.

The only way I could have messed it up is by inputting 15 instead of 10, but wouldn't I be 5 degrees more retarded overall (if the MS thinks 15 = 10)?
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:15 AM   #9
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to much retard will skyrocket the egts and make AIT's higher as well. I would recheck the timming, 10 is correct. the setting of 20-50 on the trigger anlge is the no zone i think so you are close to the no zone.
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Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
20-50 degrees is the 'no zone' but where you're at (71) will be fine. You can always adjust it at your CAS as well if needed to get outside of the 20-50 degree zone if that's where your call tries to fall initially when you set base timing.

Here's the page of th MS1 Extra Manual covering this-- http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Ex...#trigangletune

Check your stuff yo
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Old 07-05-2007, 04:28 PM   #10
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I'll ask Jerry how close "too close" is to that zone.

Here's a 3rd gear pull so you guys can see the rich-*** AFRs. The tuner said if he went any leaner, the car would detonate.

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Old 07-05-2007, 04:35 PM   #11
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Is an elf dumping buckets of fuel in your motor?

I wouldn't even ask him about it. It takes 3 turns of a wrench to turn the CAS and about 5 minutes with a timing light to readjust the trigger angle to get it spot on again. That will allow you to get the trigger angle higher. Why sit on the fringe when you can know you have it setup right like other miata MS users.

Can you rule out a shot front crank dampener, a few people have seen problems from the pulley not being accurate anymore after the rubber broke down.

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Old 07-05-2007, 04:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I set the MS from -10 to 10, then checked the timing with a timing light. It was dead nuts at 10 with a trigger angle of 52, so I set the MS back to -10.
sounds right. fixed angle should match what the timing light tells you.
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