Yet another coolant reroute with pics. - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-24-2008, 02:48 PM   #41
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Rafa...
It's not unusual for thermos to turn on slow... I.E. they have to get hot to open that first time (well, the motor does, since there's not enough flow past the thermo). My temps hit their highest of any given day waiting for the thermo to open, then they drop right down right quite.

Also, you might want to do what I did: Bridge a wire from one relay (control line) to the other. That way if either fan comes on, they both come on, and you're not overloading either fuse or relay or wiring.

REALLY helped with my temps, just a few feet of 22 guage wire and you're there.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:29 PM   #42
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Abe, I'll follow your advice on installing the fans in parallel but I know that's not the issue right now. I'm starting to think it has to do with the A/C condenser not getting any airflow. I can't find any other explanation.

BTW Bruce, here are some pics of the setup:

The last pic shows the issues I'm facing because I had to use the tstat housing of my car (I couldn't get one from a 1.6 L locally). What's happening is: the hose is rubbing with the firewall making the vibrations unbearable
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Yet another coolant reroute with pics.-dsc00547-small-.jpg   Yet another coolant reroute with pics.-dsc00550-small-.jpg   Yet another coolant reroute with pics.-dsc00551-small-.jpg  
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:30 PM   #43
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Something seems strange in that but I'm not sure what yet. I guess, if it's not too hard to do, you could run no thermo for a bit, and I bet you won't see this issue (or drill more holes in the thermo - so it opens sooner)... I think it's some sort of sticking in the thermo, not the AC?

Then again, turning the AC on and off shouldn't be doing anything! So maybe you are onto something.

I suggest pulling that lump on the end of your valve cover off, putting a crank trigger on, and getting better timing!

BTW, if you get a longer bolt and a stand off, you can turn that 4th COP around:

Not a good pic, but it works well.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:54 PM   #44
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Something seems strange in that but I'm not sure what yet. I guess, if it's not too hard to do, you could run no thermo for a bit, and I bet you won't see this issue (or drill more holes in the thermo - so it opens sooner)... I think it's some sort of sticking in the thermo, not the AC?

Then again, turning the AC on and off shouldn't be doing anything! So maybe you are onto something.

I suggest pulling that lump on the end of your valve cover off, putting a crank trigger on, and getting better timing!

BTW, if you get a longer bolt and a stand off, you can turn that 4th COP around:

Not a good pic, but it works well.
Abe thanks. I need additional info about this part of your post: "I suggest pulling that lump on the end of your valve cover off, putting a crank trigger on, and getting better timing!". I'm very interested.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:24 PM   #45
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that was a bit of tongue-in-cheek teasing about NA miatas having a CAS sensor. And you might not need to go through the work Joe did, but swapping the CAS for a toothed wheel on the crank will give you more accurate timing.

The NBs don't use the CAS at all, you'll notice there isn't one in my pic.

A friend of mine had a toothed wheel waterjet cut for like $15, welded it on his crank and is now happily motoring (or as happy as you can get in a volvo).
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:11 PM   #46
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Quote:
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that was a bit of tongue-in-cheek teasing about NA miatas having a CAS sensor. And you might not need to go through the work Joe did, but swapping the CAS for a toothed wheel on the crank will give you more accurate timing.

The NBs don't use the CAS at all, you'll notice there isn't one in my pic.

A friend of mine had a toothed wheel waterjet cut for like $15, welded it on his crank and is now happily motoring (or as happy as you can get in a volvo).
I can see yours doesn't have a CAS. I like the idea of a crank wheel. I'm not satisfied with my car's timing yet. I'll check Joe's thread. Thanks.

lol on the Volvo remark
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:02 PM   #47
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I have a package here that Yoram is supposed to be picking up to send to you. I'll look for a 1.6 t/stat cover and have him include it.

I am having similiar problems with the A/C on that I didn't have with the OEM radiator and stock fans. Now that the Godspeed is in place and the thin fans are installed, I can't run A/C at a standstill without overheating with both fans running all the time.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:42 PM   #48
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I have a package here that Yoram is supposed to be picking up to send to you. I'll look for a 1.6 t/stat cover and have him include it.

I am having similiar problems with the A/C on that I didn't have with the OEM radiator and stock fans. Now that the Godspeed is in place and the thin fans are installed, I can't run A/C at a standstill without overheating with both fans running all the time.
Thanks.

BTW Bruce, my tuner's head mechanic suggested the following today: he says I should place a slim spal fan on the front of the A/C condenser to flow more air. He says there's too much airflow restriction to the condenser. I'm I making any sense?

Also, let me know about the tstat cover so I can pay you.

Many thanks
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:45 PM   #49
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Now that the Godspeed is in place and the thin fans are installed, I can't run A/C at a standstill without overheating with both fans running all the time.
Do you think that is because of the radiator? or because of the fans not flowing enough air? I would think with that much extra capacity that it would be harder to overheat and I was also under the impression that pretty much all slim aftermarket fans should flow more than stock unless they're like 8 inches...
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
Do you think that is because of the radiator? or because of the fans not flowing enough air? I would think with that much extra capacity that it would be harder to overheat and I was also under the impression that pretty much all slim aftermarket fans should flow more than stock unless they're like 8 inches...
They are the 12" fans. At speed, the Godspeed radiator performed slightly better on the track than my OEM did last year with the same reroute and stock fans, lack of belly pan, etc. I'm thinking that the fans are not performing as well as the OEM fans.

Although, it is possible that the additional thickness of the radiator has something to do with it limiting the flow of air.

Rafa: The t/stat is old and grungy. As long as I don't have to pack and ship it, it's free.
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Old 07-24-2008, 11:21 PM   #51
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They are the 12" fans. At speed, the Godspeed radiator performed slightly better on the track than my OEM did last year with the same reroute and stock fans, lack of belly pan, etc. I'm thinking that the fans are not performing as well as the OEM fans.

Although, it is possible that the additional thickness of the radiator has something to do with it limiting the flow of air.

Rafa: The t/stat is old and grungy. As long as I don't have to pack and ship it, it's free.
I don't think it's the fans. I've got the factory one on the driver side and the small, thin one on the other side and yet, I face the same cooling issues you do.

One quick question: did you bypass the heatercore on your reroute?

Thanks for the tstat. I owe you one. Let's see if you ever visit these parts so I can pay you back.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:26 AM   #52
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I'm thinking that the fans are not performing as well as the OEM fans.
So since thread jacking seems to be my thing lately, I guess I'll do it once more.. Does anyone know what the STOCK fans flow? I can't imagine it's more than 1600CFM which is what the majority of the 12" slim fans tend to be.
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:58 AM   #53
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I have the heater core in the circuit. It operates in the normal mode from the same connection points as stock. The only basic difference in my reroute is that I pull the main line from the back to the top of the radiator through the thermostat(front t/stat position is blocked).

When the t/stat opens, the coolant is flowing through the heater core and the radiator(in parallel) after passing through the engine. Turning on the heat at the track kept my temps down, but it was 95 degrees out, so it was a little warm in the drivers' seat.
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:07 AM   #54
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specs for a 90:
stock Main fan: 1400 CFM, 6.3A draw
stock A/C fan: 1320 CFM, 5.2A draw
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:31 AM   #55
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specs for a 90:
stock Main fan: 1400 CFM, 6.3A draw
stock A/C fan: 1320 CFM, 5.2A draw
These are the ones I installed:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROCO...mZ230272278679

Combination of lower flow and larger radiator seems to have made the system VERY marginal.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:45 PM   #56
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The OEM fans are not bad - aside from being thick, there's really not a lot wrong with them. I can't say enough good things about ducting - if you put quality shrouding in around all your radiator/intercooler/condensor, it has to be cooler.

Also, maybe what you guys are seeing with the AC is the condensor not getting much air since with all the radiator space air is getting sucked around it and nowt through it?

Got me. I can't say I miss my AC much, I only use it to cool my feet when they get too hot from having the heater on on cold long nights.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:01 PM   #57
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The OEM fans are not bad - aside from being thick, there's really not a lot wrong with them. I can't say enough good things about ducting - if you put quality shrouding in around all your radiator/intercooler/condensor, it has to be cooler.

Also, maybe what you guys are seeing with the AC is the condensor not getting much air since with all the radiator space air is getting sucked around it and nowt through it?

Got me. I can't say I miss my AC much, I only use it to cool my feet when they get too hot from having the heater on on cold long nights.

Abe, are you trying to convince me that there are no hot days in San Diego?

BTW, how difficult would it be to relocate the A/C condenser?
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:26 PM   #58
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I've had similar experience with the ebay fans as Bruce. I wouldn't trust the cfm ratings in the ads. I've got a curved blade 16" ebay fan that's rated at 2800cfm yet miraculously only pulls 12 amps, compared to my 2700cfm Spal straight blade that pulls 20amps. I've also had two 12" ebay fans, one failed after minor use and the obviously pulls less air than stock. So I'd venture to say that the quality (motors) in the noname/china fans is probably questionable too.

Relocating is a good idea, but why not change it out to something that better fits the application? What about offsetting exchanger sizes and positions? This way you have some direct air exposure, and less post drag. Like radiators, I'm sure there plenty of condensers out there that could be taken advantage of for their different size. Anybody who is welding aluminum IC pipes can weld up the AC lines- it's the same thickness (if not thicker).

There's 6" of vertical space to take advantage of from the base of the OE radiator to base of the subframe. My current rad sits 2" above the subframe base and still gets a good 6" of direct air exposure - because I'm using 4" of said space, and the condenser sits 2" + higher than the base of the OE rad.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #59
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Abe, are you trying to convince me that there are no hot days in San Diego?
Actually, yeah, it's kinda rare. But it gets hot quickly as you go east, away from the water. Anyway, I didn't pull it out because I wanted to improve cooling, I pulled it out since it'd been broken for nearly two years and I figured at this rate I would never fix it. The day I get inspired to fix it I can put it all back in.

How far do you want to move the condenser? I hear they really really want cold air! I wanted to put mine behind the rad but got talked out of it.

Nice drawing, btw! Anyway, all this is reminding me (re-emphasizing for me) that I need to replace my ducting. It made more of a difference than the giant radiator did.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:22 PM   #60
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I just dug around on ebay and it looks there are OE condensers that will fit in that vertical space under an OE sized rad. That would make it easy- just get somebody to weld up the OE fittings on the new condenser and reform the mouth shroud.
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