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Old 07-28-2008, 04:52 PM   #61
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I just dug around on ebay and it looks there are OE condensers that will fit in that vertical space under an OE sized rad. That would make it easy- just get somebody to weld up the OE fittings on the new condenser and reform the mouth shroud.
Sorry to bother Rob but; could you post a link? This sounds like a really good option.

BTW, great info and pics on your previous post!

I was also checking my rad and IC and even though my rad is a PWR, I don't have those 6 extra inches below (maybe it has to do with the fact that my IC is from a Begi S5 and it's huge). I also don't know how much is my Racing Beat Type II bumper affecting me.

Another dumb question: what would happen if I went back to my OEM radiator for daily use? One thing is for sure, aluminum radiators are more efficient but they also transfer more heat to the engine.

Many thanks
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:56 PM   #62
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Actually, yeah, it's kinda rare. But it gets hot quickly as you go east, away from the water. Anyway, I didn't pull it out because I wanted to improve cooling, I pulled it out since it'd been broken for nearly two years and I figured at this rate I would never fix it. The day I get inspired to fix it I can put it all back in.

How far do you want to move the condenser? I hear they really really want cold air! I wanted to put mine behind the rad but got talked out of it.

Nice drawing, btw! Anyway, all this is reminding me (re-emphasizing for me) that I need to replace my ducting. It made more of a difference than the giant radiator did.
I can't put my condenser behind the rad. It would get insanely hot! I'm thinking about following Rob's suggestion. I'm going to look for a different style of condenser and I love the position of the one in the pic. I'll try and see if that works for me. I'm also seriously considering putting an additional fan in front of it.

We've got 95 to 100* weather with 80 to 90 percent humidity in these parts until October so I can't afford to take the A/C out.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #63
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Rafa- I just went to the AC section of eBay motors and searched for condenser. Looking at all the gallery icons shows a multitude of shapes/sizes. I think you'd have to do some research and find a car that had a condenser to fit that area. My guess is that some OE manufacturers have taken this approach to improve efficiency by stacking vertically rather than horizontally.

There's a lot of give and take when re-engineering the front end with all the exchangers. A stock rad might work if it doesn't have anything in front of it, but my guess is your IC is going to cause some grief for it- even if the condenser isn't there. Keep in mind that I've yet to charge my AC, so it's all speculation from my point. I fear poor AC cooling at this point since my condenser is sandwiched between the IC and rad.

I'm not sure about your situation regarding the amount of space below the rad. I know for a fact that the OE rad lacks nearly 2" from touching the undertray because I've run brake cooling hoses under it from the mouth to the calipers. You can see in the pics below (older photo, since modded more) that I have substantially dropped that point down in the modifications to the mouth shroud to meet the base of the taller radiator. And it's still 2" above the subframe base, about flush with the bottom of the bumper/nose base (even with the top of the OE spoiler).


Here's the current modded shroud, which essentially opens up the bottom of the mouth shroud to the base of the front bumper/nose. The shroud does drop down a small bit from the base of the rad as it nears the nose. I was running out of time and gave a seal of "it'll do" approval.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:42 PM   #64
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I plan on building a setup like this and mating it with the M-Tuned Coolant Re-Route kit (Testing rear housing this week).



This way I don't have the stacked effect! I've always loved this setup.. This dude must of read my mind a few years ago.





Already have the cooler purchased Originally for my Subaru WRX, but it will be going on the Miata.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #65
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Marc, I like that setup but; it sure would mean too much of a hassle for me. Plus, that guy doesn't use an A/C
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:52 PM   #66
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Plus, that guy doesn't use an A/C
I see A/C lines on the firewall and what looks to be a AC pulley under the Power Steering But I could be wrong so don't quote me on it!
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:58 PM   #67
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Hmmm, I don't have a plastic tray thing, my car was lacking it when I got it. But I like your bends, Rafa. How did you get the plastic to attach to the rad? Any more detailed shots? That was the only thing I was unhappy with last time.
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:58 AM   #68
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Default A Note About Reroutes!!

Don't go part way.

In the OEM setup, the real problem is the thermostat position in the front.

Once it opens, the flow to the back of the engine is limited to the amount that the heater core can see of the little bit of excess that isn't going through the front loop (from pump, through t/stat, through radiator, to pump)

Moving the heater core return from pump intake(to places like the top of the radiator) further reduces the flow to the back of the engine if you have not also moved the t/stat.

Think about it..... Moving the heater core return to the top of the radiator after the t/stat in the OEM position removes the low pressure area in front of the pump intake from its' circuit. Once the t/stat opens. Flow to the back of the engine, when you need it most, is almost non-existent. This is because you have introduced almost the same pressure on both ends of the circuit.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #69
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Hmmm, I don't have a plastic tray thing, my car was lacking it when I got it. But I like your bends, Rafa. How did you get the plastic to attach to the rad? Any more detailed shots? That was the only thing I was unhappy with last time.
Abe; what plastic?
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:58 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Don't go part way.

In the OEM setup, the real problem is the thermostat position in the front.

Once it opens, the flow to the back of the engine is limited to the amount that the heater core can see of the little bit of excess that isn't going through the front loop (from pump, through t/stat, through radiator, to pump)

Moving the heater core return from pump intake(to places like the top of the radiator) further reduces the flow to the back of the engine if you have not also moved the t/stat.

Think about it..... Moving the heater core return to the top of the radiator after the t/stat in the OEM position removes the low pressure area in front of the pump intake from its' circuit. Once the t/stat opens. Flow to the back of the engine, when you need it most, is almost non-existent. This is because you have introduced almost the same pressure on both ends of the circuit.
Not sure I totally understand it Bruce but I wanted to ask; did I make a mistake by blocking the heater core?

BTW, just got this today: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m32

I'll install it either next Monday or Tuesday. We'll see if that will fix my issues with the A/C.

BTW, some observations I need to report: I'm convinced I have issues with the air flow in the engine bay. The temps are fine if I don't use the A/C but will climb when I'm on the highway; not too much but they go up by about 10* which I find weird.

Thanks for the help
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:15 PM   #71
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Blocking the heater core is not a mistake if you make other provisions to move the water from front to back. Best/easiest way is to block the front thermostat connection and run a large line out the rear through a t/sts to the top of the radiator. The t/stat in that line needs to have small hole drilled in the flange so that you get some circulation before it opens and the t/stat can see the water temperature rise. In hot climates, you can eliminate the thermostat and let your fans control temperature by themselves.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:44 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Blocking the heater core is not a mistake if you make other provisions to move the water from front to back. Best/easiest way is to block the front thermostat connection and run a large line out the rear through a t/sts to the top of the radiator. The t/stat in that line needs to have small hole drilled in the flange so that you get some circulation before it opens and the t/stat can see the water temperature rise. In hot climates, you can eliminate the thermostat and let your fans control temperature by themselves.
Thanks. I did precisely that.
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