My Turbo 10AE's dyno tune session - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-13-2015, 06:40 PM   #1
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Default My Turbo 10AE's dyno tune session

Here is where we started back in October 2014, NA:



Here is where I was after street tuning at 10 psi



And this is where we ended up with after tuning at about 15 psi.



Unfortunately, the RPM signal was getting flaky under higher boost and threw off the torque numbers later in the evening, but it gives you an idea to where I am at now. Here are my maps:



Enjoy


Last edited by Mech5700; 01-13-2015 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:30 PM   #2
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Looks like fun numbers!
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:08 PM   #3
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Good Deal, Andy.

Did you tune for max torque at the 100kPa range? Historically, some guys here have run that lean, but most go for a bit more fuel.

Also, how much room (degrees) do you have between where you are running your 170 kPa timing, and detonation?
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Good Deal, Andy.

Did you tune for max torque at the 100kPa range? Historically, some guys here have run that lean, but most go for a bit more fuel.

Also, how much room (degrees) do you have between where you are running your 170 kPa timing, and detonation?
Are you talking about the ~14.5 @ 100kpa on the AFR table? We did the VE table by hand, so if I need to run VEAL for some reason, I will lower that 100kpa line in the AFR table closer to 12.5-12.8.

And we didn't really have to give it too much timing to get where we ended up. I definitely did not hear any pinging or detonation, so I am not sure exactly how much further we could push it. What is your 170kpa range look like on your ign table?
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:28 PM   #5
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I'll have to send you my timing tomorrow. I have not been on a dyno, yet, so was trying to get a feel for what is working on a similar engine. Did you use Det Cans, or naked ears?

OK, so you did tune for torque or at least a richer AFR at 100kPa. I'm at 13.5, which I believe safe, runs well, but is likely not ideal.

By the way. We talked earlier about starting settings. I was still way off. I now start on first try down to 25*, though not as smoothly as I'd like, but it goes start to run within 700 mS of syncing (start of regular logging, which I assume is right at sync). I'm probably at 2 times as much fuel against where I started.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:34 PM   #6
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Naked ears. The tuner I was with has a lot of experience... mostly on 1k+ hp 2J builds, all on MS, so I trust his instinct.

If you compare my VE table to AFR target, you can see it is not a drastic change in VE, like the change in the AFR table. Now that I think of it, I will probably switch back to richer AFR targets at that kpa because I have "incorporate AFR" on.

And I think we figured out the starting issues/kickback I was having. We flatlined the dwell battery correction a 100% and it has started everytime without kickback. I feel it's a mix of that and the COP setup I am running that has been giving me the trouble. Now I can get back to adding more fuel for that smoother/less cranking start.
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:27 PM   #7
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Good power and congrats.
1 thing: did you not use any boost control? a tater should be able to reach peak torque by 4k at the latest, that looks like some really slow spool
excellent peak power though
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:34 PM   #8
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Thanks alot I am happy with it, I just gotta get used to the extra power now.

For some reason, boost control tuning wasn't panning out like we wanted it to on the dyno. I had OL set up, but would often hit overboost. It seemed like I couldn't get a good balance between quick spool and over boost. So we set up CL. It wasn't cooperating with us and had a lot of oscillation that wouldn't go away no matter what level of PID and slider adjustments we did. So we ended up finishing the power tuning in OL. Today I set it back to CL and did some PID tuning and got it much better in short time, since we had it pretty close on the dyno. It feels much better now, and boost by gear is pretty awesome.
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:35 PM   #9
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So you need to make a spreadsheet with AFR targets and VE. Everywhere you lower the AFR, you need to lower the VE the same amount ratio metrically, to keep the same fuel. 14.5 to 12.5 is a factor of 0.862. So if you change a cell from 14.5 to 12.5 in the target AFR table, then multiply the VE in the same cell by 0.862 as well. This is because in the fueling equation VE is in the numerator, but AFR target is in the denominator.

This is for if you have Include AFR now and plan to leave it that way.
The trick is that the AFR table goes 100 to 130, but the VE goes 95, 105, 115, 135. That means you need to all interpolate the AFR table to the same kPa rows before you make the adjustments.

If this does not make sense, or it does make sense but you don't know how to do it, we can talk on the phone, if needed.

Main thing is that you cannot just change the AFR targets now and not screw up the actual fueling.

I like the concept of including AFR, but wondered how it would work in an actual tuning session for just this reason, that the tuner would change the VE when he might should actually change the AFR setting. Kind of complicates that aspect… when to change what when you are paying by the hour.
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:38 PM   #10
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Oh, 2860, forget my comment about similar set-ups.
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:39 PM   #11
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I'll try and do some driving in the 100kpa area and get a reading what the actual AFR turns out to be. If it's mid twelves to 13 or so, I guess I'll just leave it be.
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Good power and congrats.
1 thing: did you not use any boost control? a tater should be able to reach peak torque by 4k at the latest, that looks like some really slow spool
excellent peak power though
Check my spool data on the collective thread, I was hitting 10 at a little over 4k or 4200. It seems to require a little heavier breathing to get it up to 15 tho. I don't have the logs to see when I actually got there to compare to the dyno graph. And that was on OL too.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:38 AM   #13
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I didn't look at it the first time, but that AFR target table is terrible.
Aside from that opinion, your car is setup very well. I dig it a lot. I'm getting MS3 in the next few weeks, and a LC2. I assume you're happy with those items on your car?
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech5700 View Post
Check my spool data on the collective thread, I was hitting 10 at a little over 4k or 4200. It seems to require a little heavier breathing to get it up to 15 tho. I don't have the logs to see when I actually got there to compare to the dyno graph. And that was on OL too.
maybe spool isn't the right word

I'm talking about torque

it looks like you get to 200tq all the way at 5500

that's wayyyyyyyyy late. a gt35r can likely spool faster than that.

a tater should hit 200tq by 4k at the latest.

thirdgen makes a good point though (I didn't look at your maps before either).

not only is the target afr table terrible, but the spark map is really weird too. you run a lot of timing up to 100kpa, then just drop it like a rock. there is no way that your car needs even remotely close to -10* to -15* going from 100kpa to 130kpa

maybe that's why it's making torque so late.

even out the map
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:03 AM   #15
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Great powa there !
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:20 AM   #16
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Did Jordan tune this?
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:27 AM   #17
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Made some adjustments to the tables on the way to work this morning, will fine tune later. Incorporated AFR makes a big impact on actual AFR, it made a significant difference. And i felt the power earlier with the additional timing, thanks 18!





And yes, that was Jordan's work.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:27 AM   #18
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Great powa there !
Thanks elior!
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:57 AM   #19
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Andy, here is my present timing table:


Also, as I noted, the cells where you changed the AFR targets should now be very rich. If that is true, please let me know, so I don't walk around ignorantly mistaken on how things operate.

Thanks, DNM
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My Turbo 10AE's dyno tune session-timing.png  
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:58 AM   #20
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1. you need a MBC, even at 10psi.
2. omg that spark map sucks.
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