My Turbo 10AE's dyno tune session - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-14-2015, 09:07 AM   #21
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I am however getting some spark breakup at about 5k rpm under full boost. I have the FAB9 COP setup wired wasted spark, need to wire it up sequential to hopefully get rid of that issue.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
1. you need a MBC, even at 10psi.
2. omg that spark map sucks.
Need MBC? Can you enlighten me a little please? I thought most of you run solely CL EBC and praise it's goodness?

What don't you like about the spark map?
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:45 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Andy, here is my present timing table:


Also, as I noted, the cells where you changed the AFR targets should now be very rich. If that is true, please let me know, so I don't walk around ignorantly mistaken on how things operate.

Thanks, DNM
Yes, the cells I changed brought the afr down at that range. However I did not touch the VE table as you suggested.
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech5700 View Post
I am however getting some spark breakup at about 5k rpm under full boost. I have the FAB9 COP setup wired wasted spark, need to wire it up sequential to hopefully get rid of that issue.
Do you have the "old" fab9 igniter or the new one? The old one has issues with the MS ECU's. I was having spark breakup, then after a free swap to the new igniter I haven't had any problems.

Keith
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech5700 View Post
Need MBC? Can you enlighten me a little please? I thought most of you run solely CL EBC and praise it's goodness?

What don't you like about the spark map?
boost control in general. Boost seems really late.

your torque curve below 5K looks majorly low. not kinda low. not sorta low. majorly low.

I dont see any boost plots in here, do you have a log? because if you're actually spoolin' fine, then there's some other issue.


spark map is VERY conservative in boost and retard timing WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too fast. very aggressively conservative.

you retard 10 by 4psi. I might have pulled 1-2 at that point.
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:40 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Twodoor View Post
Do you have the "old" fab9 igniter or the new one? The old one has issues with the MS ECU's. I was having spark breakup, then after a free swap to the new igniter I haven't had any problems.

Keith
I have the new one, and I don't have any problems till about 13 psi+ and 5k rpm. I have contacted Brian @ fab and he has suggested some minor changes in the dwell settings. Tried that and did not help. He said if that doesn't work, running sequential spark is the next thing to try.

Are you still wasted spark?
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
boost control in general. Boost seems really late.

your torque curve below 5K looks majorly low. not kinda low. not sorta low. majorly low.

I dont see any boost plots in here, do you have a log? because if you're actually spoolin' fine, then there's some other issue.


spark map is VERY conservative in boost and retard timing WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too fast. very aggressively conservative.

you retard 10 by 4psi. I might have pulled 1-2 at that point.

Ok I see, we were having some trouble with the EBC tuning and was burning up time on the dyno. So by the end we tuned for peak power and decided to tune EBC on the street. The charts I posted were using OL too.

And the low timing would also inhibit spool as well, correct?
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Old 01-15-2015, 09:13 AM   #28
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I am seriously not trying to be cute here.

For me, the primary reasons I would go to a dyno would be to set timing, with an eye on max torque power but some detonation headroom. I suppose I don't understand what your goals were.

Last edited by DNMakinson; 01-15-2015 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Torque, not power
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Old 01-15-2015, 09:28 AM   #29
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All I really wanted was to see where I was at when I was at 10 psi, and go up from there. My hp goal was really only to hit about 230ish, but 250 came really easily so we left it at that and I didn't want to go any higher. I also wanted to be sure I wasn't going to run into problems with detonation, so I'm guessing that's why my spark maps are conservative. Im ok knowing that my end tune wasnt perfect, but I'm glad to know where I am and that I can fine tune the rest myself. I don't mind tweaking the maps on the street, as long as i know I'm not pushing the limits in terms of power. To me that means: keep it under 15 psi, leave the spark and fuel maps alone at the 200+kpa range, and I can play with the rest. From my understanding, there are better dynos than a dynojet for tuning other than peak power...

Might be odd, but it makes sense to me
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:09 AM   #30
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Ahh, this is the DynoJet with no steady-state tuning feature, only inertial run-ups. Somehow, in the conversation, I got the false impression this had the steady-state feature set. My mistake. Makes more sense now, Thanks.
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:19 AM   #31
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can we see the boost plot from a log? im curious. want to make sure theres not other issues with the setup.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:45 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Ahh, this is the DynoJet with no steady-state tuning feature, only inertial run-ups. Somehow, in the conversation, I got the false impression this had the steady-state feature set. My mistake. Makes more sense now, Thanks.
No biggie, I wish we had a steady state setup. We woulda accomplished a bit more I feel.

Brain, in a little bit I'll post up a screen shot of my boost control settings and a log for you. That'd be awesome if we see something I can improve to get a quicker spool!
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
can we see the boost plot from a log? im curious. want to make sure theres not other issues with the setup.
Would you like to see a 5th gear WOT run? A rip thru 2nd and 3rd? Anything in particular?
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:07 PM   #34
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did you log the dyno pulls?

3 or 4th gear from like 2k to redline.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:13 PM   #35
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Pretty much exactly what I was noticing on Facebook #boostedmiatas.

Here is a dyno printout from my time on the dyno last year. I hit a peak boost of almost 14psi. Also, you can see that I crossed into 200lb/ft at about 3,700rpm. This was a precision 4828 so maybe it's a tad better than the 2860, but it shouldn't be too far off. Our setups are pretty similar.

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My Turbo 10AE's dyno tune session-110147d1397879205-1-8-w-vvt-precision-4828-10lbish-image.jpeg  
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:43 PM   #36
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What's funny is you're actually pointlessly aggressive in your NA 100kpa row. 28* is pretty much the magically number for peak power in any properly timed 90-05 engine. You're 4* past that...
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:48 PM   #37
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Here is a dumb question and you may have already answered it...

Did the tuner touch your timing at all? If so, did you adjust your trigger timing in tunerstudio? Just thinking (without comparing spark maps etc) that perhaps your spark map is compensating for a trigger that was never adjusted OR even possibly is still locked to 10 degrees. I am not on a computer where I can look at logs or else I wouldn't be asking these silly questions.

My spark map for comparison:
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My Turbo 10AE's dyno tune session-110157d1397912233-1-8-w-vvt-precision-4828-10lbish-screen-shot-2014-04-19-7.48.01-am.jpg  
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
did you log the dyno pulls?

3 or 4th gear from like 2k to redline.
EBC settings for quick reference:



and a few logs, one was gettin on the highway in 3rd and running thru a few gears. The others are 5th gear pulls. I didn't see your request before getting back on the highway. Will log more if needed. Also attached tune.

If you look at the boost duty cycle in the logs, why does it drop to the low 30's when it hits only 3 or 4 psi? If the target is say, 205 kpa, why doesn't it hold 100% DC/block all flow to WGA untill closer to its target?

And the dyno logs are on my tuners laptop...
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2015-01-15_10.07.02.msl (125.6 KB, 56 views)
File Type: msl 2015-01-15_10.12.36.msl (89.0 KB, 60 views)
File Type: msl 2015-01-15_10.14.59.msl (115.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: msq CurrentTune.msq (224.3 KB, 97 views)
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:21 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Pretty much exactly what I was noticing on Facebook #boostedmiatas.

Here is a dyno printout from my time on the dyno last year. I hit a peak boost of almost 14psi. Also, you can see that I crossed into 200lb/ft at about 3,700rpm. This was a precision 4828 so maybe it's a tad better than the 2860, but it shouldn't be too far off. Our setups are pretty similar.
I see that. Do you think VVT is helping that a bit tho as well?
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Here is a dumb question and you may have already answered it...

Did the tuner touch your timing at all? If so, did you adjust your trigger timing in tunerstudio? Just thinking (without comparing spark maps etc) that perhaps your spark map is compensating for a trigger that was never adjusted OR even possibly is still locked to 10 degrees. I am not on a computer where I can look at logs or else I wouldn't be asking these silly questions.
He made adjustments more at the top end, but it doesn't look like much was done in the lower boost areas. And yes, I set my trigger offset initially AND turned off "fixed 10* timing"
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