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Old 08-01-2008, 03:40 PM   #1
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Default EMU plugged in.. car won't start.

The first time this happened it popped up something having to do with the ignition wires hooked up wrong. I double checked them putting them in.. decided to check again.. and again. checked 6 times total.. they are installed as per instructions. found some new info on the web, changed things around.. apparantly some of the wires that weren't hooked up that I asked about... didn't need to be hooked up anyway... updated to 2.20, tried again. Car still won't start, but didn't say the ignition wires were wrong either...

I uninstalled my bipes to install this. Well I'm driving slow since my timing is advanced... I forget how much. I'm looking at my wideband here on my desk and I can't install it till my harness comes in. Have the map sensor harness, just need to wait for the sensor to get it. Not sure when I can install the wideband anyway, hard to say when I'll have the time to get to a muffler shop. So I was gonna hook up the emanage to control my timing till then.

I set all the parameters on the software in the A/C inside. Then I plugged the harness into the car, then the emanage into the harness, then the laptop into the emanage. Then I turned the key on and exported the data and tried to start. Nothing. It will turn over and sound promising, but it never actually idles.

Then I imported the data and tried changing the A/F ratios from "-" in some of the lower boxes, to 14.7. Nothing. Tried upping them to 15.0 to maybe give it a "choke" effect... nothing. Any ideas?

I'll be able to post my logs when I get off work tonight.
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:41 AM   #2
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sweet!! got it working!! Come to find out, I had messed up something with the injector size. I thought I read that the 1.6 injectors were 205cc and I had it in as that. Then I decided to read back over some posts (I have LOTS of posts saved for future reference) and read one that said they are 230cc. I made the changes and voila! Now I just need to figure out how to have it adjust my timing by psi instead of volts... cause I don't have the map sensor installed and it's showing me volts which I don't get. I have some tan 1.8 injectors that I intend to put in. I've read in the same post that they are 254cc, and 265cc. Which are they actually?
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:47 AM   #3
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So here is the file for my drive tonight. The only I tried to adjust was the ignition timing. I don't have the pressure sensor yet, so I'm winging it off the voltage and It's retarding it way more than I want at lower rpms. I'll have to play with it. anyway, lemme know what ya'll think.

... ah crap. In all the excitement I didn't notice that I had to save the log file seperately. I, for some dumb reason, was thinking it saved in the .em2 file. It's late and I need sleep. I'll make sure to take a better log on my way to or from work tomorow and actually save it this time.
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:57 PM   #4
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I stayed up too late messing with the emanage and was late for work. In the rush to get out the door I forgot the laptop and I work even earlier tomorow. I'll go ahead and put it in my car tonight so I can't miss it this time.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:49 PM   #5
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k, here is a log of me driving home tonight. I was trying to hold the boost in certain spots to see what the corresponding airflow voltage was. I have a few and when I get time I'm gonna adjust my ignition map some. Again, this is all temporary till I get time to put in my MAP sensor.





Imageshack changed something and I can't host the picture in it's originaly size anymore. It took some finagling to get it to show up at all.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:49 AM   #6
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i would not drive the car without the map sensor and no wideband. to be safe retard the timing one degree per psi till you get the rest of the hardware installed.
provide little more info about your car.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:07 PM   #7
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oops... forgot... I've found it easier to just copy the info about my car from my other post, so here it is. I'm gonna modify this to show the things I've changed.

"Current stuff:
I've got 8.5 magnecors on the car with the stock plugs for the turboed mazdaspeed miata. the car came with the turbo, bipes, and the current gauges.. but thats another long story. I don't remember what timing I run, but I just checked it and readjusted my bipes about 3 months ago (darn this short memory of mine). I have a set of 1.8L fuel injectors sitting in my room. I installed them once, but my car ran rich (according to my narrowband) and lost power so I took them back out. I'm currently at 6psi of boost. it sometimes spikes to 7 though. I have (sadly) the rx-7/ premade IC pipes from 15psi . com... and a blowoff valve of unknown origin which I dislike, but if I get a new one, I'll have to hold off on the wideband, which means the EMU install, till a much much much later date. It leaks boost at idle, and blows out oil as an extra special bonus. It also vents atmostpheric.. which I dont mind, but I'd rather do what's best for the car, which is currently to recirculate. I've been told the emanage will make it so the atmospheric vent thing isn't a problem.. hence fixing the idle droop. I have oil blowing through my intake pipes. I did the "tap the pan" thing (not the most professional job in the world, but it drains oil), tried putting a filter on on the hose opposite the pcv valve, wiggled the compressor blade (it didn't wiggle) and checked to see if the bolts holding the turbo together were loose.. they were not. Every response I've ever had to any inquiry about this has given me one of the above mentioned methods to fix it, or just gave up responding. Noone will admit that it's even possible for the seal in the turbo to go bad though. To no avail, it still blows oil and there are traces of oil on the side of the turbo (like it came from the non-loose bolts ) Also, I've got the PCV valve from the... I think it was a turbo 323.. I just remember its supposed to have a stiffer spring. I have currently installed the stock injectors, stock fuel pump, and vortec FPR.

right now I've got a 93 with a greddy turbo."


I don't have any other choice than to drive the car. It's the only car I have and therefor is my daily driver. I'm headed to an exhaust shop today so they can order pre-mandrel-bent pipes. I'm going to have the my pipes replaced from the dp flange back. It'll be straight piped and I'm having the new bung welded in somewhere around where the pipe bends to level out and go back.

To be as safe as possible I've got my timing retarding way more than 1.5 per psi. But without the map sensor, I'm having to go by volts. So I first first held the car at 0 vacuum and 0 boost to see what the voltage was. then started making adjustments from there. I know it's way off, but if I typed how I went about doing it, this post would be too long for anyone to wanna read. I started conservative and was trying to get it closer to 1.5 degrees per 1 psi. I don't wanna get too close without the map sensor though.

I still have a few more injector related questions, but from the lack of responses, I'm thinking there aren't many people that browse the emanage forums.
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:55 AM   #8
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ok, map sensor installed tonight after work. Had a "T" and hose, but the hose didn't fit the "T" so I ended up using the old windshield squirter hose. Teed into the same line my BOV Tees into. (I didn't install the BOV) Which is coming straight off the top of the throttle body. 2 things

1. boost guage and data log show two different numbers.

2. Data log shows the pressure jumping up and down a lot.

I read about putting a restrictor of some sort into the line to the MAP sensor, but any ideas on the different readings? I set the ignition map to retard 1.5 per psi and it was jumping as much as the map sensor reading was. which I guess is to be expected. And I'm at a loss as to what classifies as a "restrictor" in the line. Something about a vice-grip (which I will do to test it tomorrow) and a motorcycle filter?

I'll rumage around the parts store tomorrow for ideas.
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:19 PM   #9
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vacuum leaks will cause your map sensor to read crazy. post some pictures to where you are routing it to and post a emu file with a log so that it can be imported and looked at. the paste on the screen is not much help.
lets see how your set up looks maybe i can help.
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:09 AM   #10
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Roger wilco... searched and found a file sharing site. Here's the link to d/l my files.


driving log:
http://www.box.net/shared/n3007rlg9s

Actual EMU file:
http://www.box.net/shared/i3avbg9c7m

ok, first time I've used this site. Looks like you'll have to save the file and then open it with the emanage software.

I'll borrow my friend's camera and snap some pictures tomorow.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:30 AM   #11
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Ok, I couldn't get the camera yesterday, but I got it tonight. This first picture is where the vacuum line T's off of my throttle body. I'm not sure where the stock line that connected here would have ran. It's been so long since I've had a stock one.The bottom most line goes to the boost guage. The bottom right line goes to the MAP sensor. And the top right line goes to the (horrible crappy) BOV.. as you can clearly see.

Picture010.jpg

This picture is where the vacuum line connects to the hard plastic tube that goes to my boost guage.

Picture012.jpg

And this is the picture of my horrible crappy BOV.

Picture014.jpg


btw, I took these pictures tonight under the street light at a local chevy dealer. I was leaving my friend's house with the camera and pondering where I could find a bright light, then DING!

Wow, the dirt really shows up in the pictures! *sigh* hard to keep a clean engine bay living on a dirt road...


oh, and I had my exhaust ran today! 2.5" mandrel bent stainless tubing. No cat and a straight through magnaflow muffler. Now I have the whole for the wideband. The only thing I still need for the exhaust is one of tony's dp's.... quick question... My exhaust was welded with a MIG welder using regular wire.. ie. Not stainless. I've been told that the welds can rust if they are not painted.. Is this how some of ya'lls are done? Cause I was expecting some sort of weld that didn't rust.. granted most of what I know about welding I learned today when I showed a friend my exhaust. I've had one person say they would take it back and complain, others say they would just paint it.. I really would rather have it TIG welded based on what I know, but I don't know much and maybe that's asking too much.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:01 AM   #12
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Ok, I guess I'm just more or less using this as my build thread now. Anyway, I've got the wideband O2 in now. I put in the sensor and the new guage and re-ran the wires for the boost guage. The guy that installed it had a horribly ugly red wire going through the firewall and circling the engine bay to end up and a wire going into the parking lights. You can actually see a bit of the ugly read wire in two of those pictures.

anyway, I've got the O2 plugged into the option 2 slot. I haven't yet gotten it to work correctly with the emanage though. The datalogger was reading something like 24 at idle while the guage was going between 14.6 and 15.0. Played a little and haven't figured it out. When I get more time I'll try some more. The guage has lots of wires going into it (compared to 3 on my last guage) and acts as the signal processor. It sends a 0-4v range linear signal to the emanage. The emanage trys to read a 0-5v signal and I'm not sure how to change it. The guage can scale the signal back to a smaller range, but not any larger than 0-4v. And when I change the option input to A/F meter, I'm not sure what the two boxes with numbers in them are.. a range of some sort. Didn't find them in the directions but I'l look more tomorow as I didn't have much time today.

I'll take pictures as soon as I can of the exhaust and the location of the sensor. I've gotten ahold of Tony and will be ordering a dp form him asap. Still haven't figured out why the MAP and boost guage read different, but I saw what I assume is a "restrictor" in the boost guage hose and have an idea what I'm looking for. It was a small metal sheet with a pin hole in it. Looks like the guage came that way. Also, the guage reads about .5 psi when it's unhooked/off. But it and the MAP read different by as much as 1.5 or so.

P.S. since my BOV leaks, maybe that's what's causing the MAP sensor to read wrong, but I won't know till I can get another BOV.
edit again: Or I might be able to just take it off and plug the hole at idle to see if they read the same that way. wouldn't wanna drive it though.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:29 AM   #13
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what wideband is it? brand .
also the 24 reading is maybe due to a bad ground you have the 3 wires that go into the emanage and one is the ground it has to be solid.
BOV can be replaced with a stock DSM valve or a bosh from a VW. i got the DSM and it works fine. i think i got like 3 if you want one let me know maybe i can hook you up with a good price.
map sensor is more sensitive than the gauge. i would not rely too much on the gauge. i do have the jumping around on mine as well since the time frame that you look at is in ms. a leak of some sort will make the map sensor read really shitty because you can not hold consistent boost, the psi are always trying to adjust. is there another vacuum line that you can hook that up to instead the front? i made a vacuum rail and cut the brake line, inserted it there. the thing with that is that you have to make sure it is not leaking because you may loose brakes. like the one in the picture on the bottom of this page.
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:19 PM   #14
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The wideband I bought was labeled as autometer, but the actual sensor itself is bosch. It's part of their phantom series. The boost guage is phantom so I figured why not match them. If this is inadequate then I'll sell it and buy a different one. The guage sends two wires to the EMU, but the option harness I bought from mhd parts wasn't labeled. there was a white and grey wire, I hooked it up as white being positive and grey being negative. The guage has a seperate wire come out for ground, I'll go and re-do it on my lunch break tomorow.

I'll also go ahead and look for another vacuum line hook up tomorow. I'll probably go ahead and just replace all my vacuum lines some time within the next few days. I also plan to put better engine ground wires in next chance I get.

As far as BOVs go, I was planning on getting the HKS SSQ since the price has come down a bit since last time I looked at them. And I didn't even know a vacuum manifold existed.

I found a guy that's gonna sell me the valve spring kit, wiseco forged turbo pistons, carillo A-beam rods, and ARP main cap studs from flyin miata. Also a block thats been freshly machined and a brand new crank shaft.. now that I look at the picture, it might be that stroker kit.. I'll have to call and ask him. anywho, he was gonna sell me the head that was ported and polished too but he can't find it. All the parts are new and the engine hasn't been put together yet. All for $400. A friend of mine bought the parts and had this mechanic shop that was gonna put it all together and in the car, but he had a different shop installing the turbo. A combination of the mechanic shop taking too long and the other shop messing up and frying his piston rings.. he gave up and sold all his parts and his miata to the mechanic shop. Well here it is a year or so later and the shop owner is tired of it taking up space on his bench. I showed up asking about it because my friend just told me the other day that the shop had the parts. Well apprantly the guy that was gonna get the parts doesn't work there anymore and never paid for them. The owner recently acquired a 96' automatic and was gonna put it in that just to get it off his bench. lucky I heard about it when I did, it was almost too late... moral of the story, this might delay my frantic buying of parts for my daily driver till my next pay check. Or not.. depends on how irresponsible I get...
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:15 AM   #15
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Anyone got any ideas on getting the wideband to work with the EMU?

I've fiddled around with the software repeatedly and haven't figured it out yet. Even got a scare once, my car didn't start after a fiddling session. Sent an e-mail to greddy and haven't recieved a reply yet. That was several days ago, there's still a chance to get one so I haven't completely given up hope. It's just kinda dissapointing to put that much money and effort into getting it all in only to not figure out how to make it work.

I've been fiddling with the numbers that come up when you first select the wideband for the option port. I don't know what they do, but they change the numbers in the datalog. It seems to run best when I leave them all wacked out. I can get it closer to the number shown on the guage by changing the numbers, but then the car runs horrible or not at all. And I've still not seen anything about changing the voltage range.




I almost forgot. Here's the pictures of the stuff I bought. The camera died before I finished taking pictures, but I also have the kit to upgrade the head from fm.. the titanium retainers and heavy duty springs and stuff.

This is a brand new stock 1.6L crank:
Picture018.jpg

This is the bottom of the block. it's a stock block. I think it's used, but it's been machined and honed. They said they did something to it to make the pistons fit, but I'm pretty sure the pistons fit a stock block with nothing done. So I'm pretty sure it's just been honed and cleaned up.
Picture019.jpg

Here is a close up of one of the cylinders:
Picture020.jpg

Here is a view of the top side of the block:
Picture021.jpg

And last is a picture of the pistons and rods. The pistons are the wiseco turbo pistons from fm. 9:1 compression. The rods are stock, they are the ones that were in the block before it was taken apart so the block and those rods are new but they have been cleaned up. It will be awhile before I put this thing together. I'm gonna wait till I have a better job so I can get the carrilo rods to go with it. The camera died after this picture so I couldn't take any more or better ones. But you can kinda see a little bit of the retainers in the bottom of the picture.
Picture022.jpg

Last edited by vortamock; 08-25-2008 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:42 AM   #16
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So greddy e-mailed me back with a number. So I called the number and they told me the voltage range thing shouldn't matter. The boxes are the high and low ratio values that the guage will put out. They say that as long as I put those in correct, I shouldn't have a problem. Also, I tried splicing the map sensor signal wire into the throttle position input into the EMU. That didn't go so well...

I have the official greddy 4-bar sensor and the harness. I spliced into the white wire. The values acted as if I spliced into the correct wires. The stock setting in the EMU was to reverse the signal, but that was showing me at 85% throttle at idle, so I switched it to normal. I ended up trying it both ways. Anyway, I've got one more idea to try before I feel like I need to ask for help, but I just felt like an update was in order. Basically, I would set it up and it would set the min and max values on it's own. But my laptop battery was dead so I was plugged into the side of a gas station. My car doesn't boost unless I'm moving, dunno if that's normal but that's the way it's always been. So I'm thinking maybe it's because it didn't get a good range sample, but when I saved and shut it off, it wouldn't turn back on. So now that I've charged the laptop, I'm gonna go try again and this time I'll do a full throttle run before I save it so it gets a correct max value. Maybe that will fix it... anywho, till next time. cheers.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:46 PM   #17
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When you said that you started the car at the beginning, did the car start and run until it tries to settle at an idle, then shut off? Also as soon as you tapped the gas pedal, did the car shut off immediately? I am having these symptoms and was wondering if i have the same injector problem.
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