01-05 Reverant MS2E: turns over and sputters, but won't start. - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-31-2014, 02:52 PM   #1
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Default 01-05 Reverant MS2E: turns over and sputters, but won't start.

Hey guys,

I put a MS2E that Reverant built for a 2002 into my stock '03 last night. I got the original stock Reverant '02 basemap from the guy I bought the MS from, and I burned that onto the MS before I tried starting it. The computer seemed to be communicating with the car (I had throttle position, fuel pump priming, and coolant temp), but when I tried to start it, it would turn over a few times, sputter like it wanted to start, and then quit. Since it almost starts, it seems to be getting fuel and spark.

After I tried a few times, it would just sit there and crank, and quit sputtering at all. Then, if I let it sit for a bit, it would sputter some more, and then quit again.

I've been searching the forum for "no start" threads, but it looks like most of them involve issues with the base tune; since it's a Reverant MS, and it's got his base MSQ on it, I'm hesitant to start making changes to the tune before I rule out other possibilities, like incorrect installation.

I have a MAP line going from the suggested place on page 41 of the Flyin Miata Turbo Install manual (a little elbow nipple on the top of the intake, towards the back), and I've got an AEM WB O2 sensor. The AEM would start up and go nuts for a bit, then it would consistently settle down to 15.2 while the car is just sitting there off. It also was warming the O2 sensor. I'm not sure how to trouble shoot the MAP line, though. Also, I shold probably mention that I've still got the MAF still in place, with the stock IAT sensor.

The car runs fine with the stock ECU and O2 sensor (I had to hook it back up to get to work this morning), so there shouldn't be anything wrong with the injectors or ignition wires.

I have attached the MSQ that I've got on it just for reference. I didn't think to datalog the start attempts last night, but I'll do that tonight.

I'm very new to all of this, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Nikolai
Attached Files
File Type: msq Rev_basemap_2002NB.msq (90.2 KB, 35 views)
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:32 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Engi-ninja View Post
Hey guys,

I put a MS2E that Reverant built for a 2002 into my stock '03 last night. I got the original stock Reverant '02 basemap from the guy I bought the MS from, and I burned that onto the MS before I tried starting it. The computer seemed to be communicating with the car (I had throttle position, fuel pump priming, and coolant temp), but when I tried to start it, it would turn over a few times, sputter like it wanted to start, and then quit. Since it almost starts, it seems to be getting fuel and spark.

After I tried a few times, it would just sit there and crank, and quit sputtering at all. Then, if I let it sit for a bit, it would sputter some more, and then quit again.

I've been searching the forum for "no start" threads, but it looks like most of them involve issues with the base tune; since it's a Reverant MS, and it's got his base MSQ on it, I'm hesitant to start making changes to the tune before I rule out other possibilities, like incorrect installation.

I have a MAP line going from the suggested place on page 41 of the Flyin Miata Turbo Install manual (a little elbow nipple on the top of the intake, towards the back), and I've got an AEM WB O2 sensor. The AEM would start up and go nuts for a bit, then it would consistently settle down to 15.2 while the car is just sitting there off. It also was warming the O2 sensor. I'm not sure how to trouble shoot the MAP line, though. Also, I shold probably mention that I've still got the MAF still in place, with the stock IAT sensor.

The car runs fine with the stock ECU and O2 sensor (I had to hook it back up to get to work this morning), so there shouldn't be anything wrong with the injectors or ignition wires.

I have attached the MSQ that I've got on it just for reference. I didn't think to datalog the start attempts last night, but I'll do that tonight.

I'm very new to all of this, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Nikolai
If you reloaded the base tune then you likely will need to redo req_fuel settings even though Rev has a value in it. Kind of indicated by the initial sputtering (not to say that could be the ONLY thing).

And FYI, the documentation on msextra.com should be read and reread.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:46 PM   #3
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Ok, thanks! I'll look into the Fuel Req, and I have read through the setup in the MSextra, but I can definitely run through it again.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:50 PM   #4
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So I checked the fuel req, and it was originally set to 8. I recalculated it for 1800cc engine and 265cc/min injectors, and it gave me 11.4. Using this value, it started, and then very slowly died. I increased it to 12, and then it would idle at baout 1100 RPM. It was really temperamental when I did things like turning on the lights, and turning the steering wheel; sometimes it would die unless I gave it some throttle. Sometimes it would also start to cut out when I gave it throttle, too. It turns out the original owner of the MS2E had larger injectors in, so Reverant's base fuel map was tuned for those.

Given that, should I need to tweak the VE tables in addition to changing the fuel req value? It seems like it should be one or the other, right? Either change the fuel req, or scale the VE tables?

Also, I started to drive it around the neighborhood, and the AFR went off the charts lean, so I stopped and came back.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Engi-ninja View Post
So I checked the fuel req, and it was originally set to 8. I recalculated it for 1800cc engine and 265cc/min injectors, and it gave me 11.4. Using this value, it started, and then very slowly died. I increased it to 12, and then it would idle at baout 1100 RPM. It was really temperamental when I did things like turning on the lights, and turning the steering wheel; sometimes it would die unless I gave it some throttle. Sometimes it would also start to cut out when I gave it throttle, too. It turns out the original owner of the MS2E had larger injectors in, so Reverant's base fuel map was tuned for those.

Given that, should I need to tweak the VE tables in addition to changing the fuel req value? It seems like it should be one or the other, right? Either change the fuel req, or scale the VE tables?

Also, I started to drive it around the neighborhood, and the AFR went off the charts lean, so I stopped and came back.
OK, you got it to start. Good.

Now go here: MS2/Extra Tuning guide and follow it from the start "Getting the Engine Started and Idling". Don't screw with the VE tables until you have the car idling right (from start to warmed up).

Do you have the full version of Tunerstudio? If not, buy it...
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:05 PM   #6
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Ok, thanks; yeah that tuning guide is a big help. I also was able to get a VE table from Reverant that's better suited to my injectors, so that should help too. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to tinker with it for a few days, but I'll update when I do. That will give me time to read over the tuning guide some more and make sure I understand it anyway.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:20 AM   #7
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I imported Rev's VE table last night, and it started up and ran pretty well! I drove around for a bit running the VEAL, and it all seemed to work pretty well. Whenever I really opened it up and got around 4.5k-5.5k RPMs, it went very rich though; the gauge bottomed out at 10 and just sat there till I slowed down. Also, while it starts, it has to crank for longer than normal, and then sometimes it doesn't quite start and I have to try again. I tried increasing the cranking PW, but it didn't really seem to make much difference. I have the req_fuel at the calculated value of 11.4 right now; maybe I should increase that a little bit and see what happens? When I get home tonight, I'll post screenshots of my cranking settings and a datalog.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:05 PM   #8
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Ok, I've been making some progress, but I'm stumped now. Everything runs pretty well, I'm hitting my AFR targets pretty well, it starts pretty consistently, and it's not doing anything weird while running. However, when I trie to rev it up in first gear, it stops at 4000 rpms. The car doesn't die or jerk or anything, it just stops accelerating. When I shift into second, it will rev a little higher, but then it does the same thing at about 4300 rpms. I can't upload my msq right now, but I was just wondering if there's something obvious that would cause that. If not, I'll upload my msq tonight to see what you guys think.

Thanks!
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