BEGi reflash or new ecu for msm
02-12-2015, 12:56 PM
#21
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[QUOTE=msmfan1;1205417]
Keep in mind there are other costs involved with going MS.
Wideband o2 sensor. Most people will recommend either the Innovate LC1 or AEM UEGO. Both are in the 200 dollar range. Some people have had success with the glowshift wideband (surprisingly) and there's another company called APSX that is pretty cheap that SEEMS to work (there's a member here that has it, and did a slight review, a video on youtube shows one in a miata running MS).
You'll also want a GM IAT sensor as well too, those generally go for maybe 50 bucks? You'll have to get that welded on to your intercooler piping as well.
Plus keep in mind you'll need someone to tune it, which may cost anywhere from as cheap as 300 and as expensive as 800.
So there are more costs, and it is more expensive, but is it worth it? Absolutely.
Also REV is continually making cool stuff for his version of MS. I mean, Check Engine Light control (for shift light, coolant warning, knock warning). OBD II port still has some data (to log RPM's, coolant temps, speeds etc), not to mention Shadow Dash (bluetooth to android display).
So you will spend more going MS, but at least with MS as your car grows (big turbo, huge injectors, E85, cams engine builds) the MS will not get outgrown.
For me, I know it's overkill, I only have a DP, intercooler, and a cone filter. But why spend money on a 300 dollar intake, and a few other things when the most important thing is the stock ECU sucks?
My plans are as follows:
Get car running on MS, (I have done a little tuning, and taken both EFI University Courses), get to learn how it all works, then slowly work my way up, big injectors, fuel pump, then learn boost controls.
Wideband o2 sensor. Most people will recommend either the Innovate LC1 or AEM UEGO. Both are in the 200 dollar range. Some people have had success with the glowshift wideband (surprisingly) and there's another company called APSX that is pretty cheap that SEEMS to work (there's a member here that has it, and did a slight review, a video on youtube shows one in a miata running MS).
You'll also want a GM IAT sensor as well too, those generally go for maybe 50 bucks? You'll have to get that welded on to your intercooler piping as well.
Plus keep in mind you'll need someone to tune it, which may cost anywhere from as cheap as 300 and as expensive as 800.
So there are more costs, and it is more expensive, but is it worth it? Absolutely.
Also REV is continually making cool stuff for his version of MS. I mean, Check Engine Light control (for shift light, coolant warning, knock warning). OBD II port still has some data (to log RPM's, coolant temps, speeds etc), not to mention Shadow Dash (bluetooth to android display).
So you will spend more going MS, but at least with MS as your car grows (big turbo, huge injectors, E85, cams engine builds) the MS will not get outgrown.
For me, I know it's overkill, I only have a DP, intercooler, and a cone filter. But why spend money on a 300 dollar intake, and a few other things when the most important thing is the stock ECU sucks?
My plans are as follows:
Get car running on MS, (I have done a little tuning, and taken both EFI University Courses), get to learn how it all works, then slowly work my way up, big injectors, fuel pump, then learn boost controls.
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02-12-2015, 01:14 PM
#22
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I disagree that you need a tuner with MS. I had never done anything like it before and was able to figure it out with some reading and playing with it. The base spark map from Reverent will be fine and won't need adjusting. Just make some minor adjustments to get your idle just like you want it and then use the VE Analyze Live autotune feature in TunerStudio to tune your air/fuel ratio while you drive the car around. Then save the tune and you are good until you make some other change to your car. Added a bigger exhaust or some other significant change? Run VEAL again and save the tune again. No big deal.
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02-12-2015, 01:15 PM
#23
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: TX
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I disagree that you need a tuner with MS. I had never done anything like it before and was able to figure it out with some reading and playing with it. The base spark map from Reverent will be fine and won't need adjusting. Just make some minor adjustments to get your idle just like you want it and then use the VE Analyze Live autotune feature in TunerStudio to tune your air/fuel ratio while you drive the car around. Then save the tune and you are good until you make some other change to your car. Added a bigger exhaust or some other significant change? Run VEAL again and save the tune again. No big deal.
sixshooter, forgive me on this one, I haven't received my MS yet, but I was just speaking generally. Not too many people want to jump in and tune blindly. Granted with enough researching you should figure it out, but I don't think it's for someone with the faint of heart.
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02-12-2015, 03:57 PM
#25
Wideband o2 sensor. Most people will recommend either the Innovate LC1 or AEM UEGO. Both are in the 200 dollar range. Some people have had success with the glowshift wideband (surprisingly) and there's another company called APSX that is pretty cheap that SEEMS to work (there's a member here that has it, and did a slight review, a video on youtube shows one in a miata running MS).
You'll also want a GM IAT sensor as well too, those generally go for maybe 50 bucks? You'll have to get that welded on to your intercooler piping as well.
Plus keep in mind you'll need someone to tune it, which may cost anywhere from as cheap as 300 and as expensive as 800.
So there are more costs, and it is more expensive, but is it worth it? Absolutely.
Also REV is continually making cool stuff for his version of MS. I mean, Check Engine Light control (for shift light, coolant warning, knock warning). OBD II port still has some data (to log RPM's, coolant temps, speeds etc), not to mention Shadow Dash (bluetooth to android display).
So you will spend more going MS, but at least with MS as your car grows (big turbo, huge injectors, E85, cams engine builds) the MS will not get outgrown.
For me, I know it's overkill, I only have a DP, intercooler, and a cone filter. But why spend money on a 300 dollar intake, and a few other things when the most important thing is the stock ECU sucks?
You'll also want a GM IAT sensor as well too, those generally go for maybe 50 bucks? You'll have to get that welded on to your intercooler piping as well.
Plus keep in mind you'll need someone to tune it, which may cost anywhere from as cheap as 300 and as expensive as 800.
So there are more costs, and it is more expensive, but is it worth it? Absolutely.
Also REV is continually making cool stuff for his version of MS. I mean, Check Engine Light control (for shift light, coolant warning, knock warning). OBD II port still has some data (to log RPM's, coolant temps, speeds etc), not to mention Shadow Dash (bluetooth to android display).
So you will spend more going MS, but at least with MS as your car grows (big turbo, huge injectors, E85, cams engine builds) the MS will not get outgrown.
For me, I know it's overkill, I only have a DP, intercooler, and a cone filter. But why spend money on a 300 dollar intake, and a few other things when the most important thing is the stock ECU sucks?
$158 for the aem eugo. Only $42 cheaper than you quoted, but in a budget build like his every dime counts.
GM Sensor from the junkyard. I got 6 for free. Easy enough to check accuracy and find one that works. The aluminum bung cost me $4. Pigtail was also free from the junkyard.
With his minimal power goals, a little effort can go into learning to tune. A conservative street tune is more than sufficient, and autotune can do much of this for you with a good basemap like Rev would supply.
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02-12-2015, 04:16 PM
#26
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Pretty simple. Are you a hands-on guy or a hands-off guy? The Begi reflash has too many factors that would be out of your control and you're relying on them to do it right. Their reputation is questionable but your free to formulate your own opinion.
The MS option, if your up for it, will be a lot more involved on your own. But the benefits are so much more and the self gratification of doing it alone is awesome. I've not had a real tuner touch the tune on my car, I've just learned over the last 2 years from researching here and tweaking things and learning how it effects the car. For completely ZERO knowledge on all of it from the start, I'm pretty proud of the fact the few dyno sessions I've been too the tuners were impressed with my tune. It's been touch and go but the car has never been undrivable or down for a period of time on me. I've maintained pretty much all drivebility, you just gotta keep at it.
Also keep in mind begi charges for the reflash, and will hit you up for more money every time you want something in the tune tweaked. Which means also anytime your wanting something changed in the tune your pulling out your ecu and sending it to them and praying they send it back to you in a reasonable amount of time. That's a lot of downtime if your not happy with their initial "reflash".
Initial investment for a MS will probably be around $1500 assuming your buying new injectors, a wideband, gm sensor, and the TS software. Then if you do decide to pay an actual tuner to tune your car there is those costs. But atleast with the MS you have the option instead of again relying on Begi. But with that initial investment, you now have a setup that will last you through whatever mods you decide on in the future with no need to swap out for something better etc.
The MS option, if your up for it, will be a lot more involved on your own. But the benefits are so much more and the self gratification of doing it alone is awesome. I've not had a real tuner touch the tune on my car, I've just learned over the last 2 years from researching here and tweaking things and learning how it effects the car. For completely ZERO knowledge on all of it from the start, I'm pretty proud of the fact the few dyno sessions I've been too the tuners were impressed with my tune. It's been touch and go but the car has never been undrivable or down for a period of time on me. I've maintained pretty much all drivebility, you just gotta keep at it.
Also keep in mind begi charges for the reflash, and will hit you up for more money every time you want something in the tune tweaked. Which means also anytime your wanting something changed in the tune your pulling out your ecu and sending it to them and praying they send it back to you in a reasonable amount of time. That's a lot of downtime if your not happy with their initial "reflash".
Initial investment for a MS will probably be around $1500 assuming your buying new injectors, a wideband, gm sensor, and the TS software. Then if you do decide to pay an actual tuner to tune your car there is those costs. But atleast with the MS you have the option instead of again relying on Begi. But with that initial investment, you now have a setup that will last you through whatever mods you decide on in the future with no need to swap out for something better etc.
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02-12-2015, 04:17 PM
#27
For amateur MS users, I think the biggest hurdle to overcome are the trims/corrections/enrichments. Stuff like cold start, AE and EAE, stuff like that.
The cool thing is lots of the PNP units being sold today come with fantastic base maps.
Use base map spark table or make one similar to the many posted here. Use base map target afr table or make one from many posted here.
So really you just dial in VE table, and the little things, and you should have a running/driving car.
It took me a few hours in the past to do this. The time consuming part is working out all the little other settings to make it run flawlessly/OEM like. Right now, most times, it takes under an hour to set everything up enough to have a decently running car. It's really not bad at all. Definitely requires some effort on the part of the user though.
The cool thing is lots of the PNP units being sold today come with fantastic base maps.
Use base map spark table or make one similar to the many posted here. Use base map target afr table or make one from many posted here.
So really you just dial in VE table, and the little things, and you should have a running/driving car.
It took me a few hours in the past to do this. The time consuming part is working out all the little other settings to make it run flawlessly/OEM like. Right now, most times, it takes under an hour to set everything up enough to have a decently running car. It's really not bad at all. Definitely requires some effort on the part of the user though.
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02-12-2015, 04:23 PM
#28
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Chicago
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For amateur MS users, I think the biggest hurdle to overcome are the trims/corrections/enrichments. Stuff like cold start, AE and EAE, stuff like that.
The cool thing is lots of the PNP units being sold today come with fantastic base maps.
Use base map spark table or make one similar to the many posted here. Use base map target afr table or make one from many posted here.
So really you just dial in VE table, and the little things, and you should have a running/driving car.
It took me a few hours in the past to do this. The time consuming part is working out all the little other settings to make it run flawlessly/OEM like. Right now, most times, it takes under an hour to set everything up enough to have a decently running car. It's really not bad at all. Definitely requires some effort on the part of the user though.
The cool thing is lots of the PNP units being sold today come with fantastic base maps.
Use base map spark table or make one similar to the many posted here. Use base map target afr table or make one from many posted here.
So really you just dial in VE table, and the little things, and you should have a running/driving car.
It took me a few hours in the past to do this. The time consuming part is working out all the little other settings to make it run flawlessly/OEM like. Right now, most times, it takes under an hour to set everything up enough to have a decently running car. It's really not bad at all. Definitely requires some effort on the part of the user though.
That's where a great user-base comes in too. We've got a few threads over at m-s.com for megasquirt people where we help each other out since our cars all are more relative to each other. I've had a few people post up needing some help and I ended up talking to them on the phone.
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02-12-2015, 04:27 PM
#29
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A little bit more, but I think this is the ECU you want to look at:
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
This is MS3-Pro based, a significantly better design over traditional B&G designed MegaSquirt products. It is dramatically improved over MS2, with a much faster processor, better accuracy, better I/O complement, on board datalogging, on board long term fuel trims, better interface, fantastic alternator control, and includes the licenses for TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer. Supports both high and low impedance injectors, even 2 stages of sequential fuel. Completely designed, built, sold, and supported out of Suwanee, GA, and in stock.
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
This is MS3-Pro based, a significantly better design over traditional B&G designed MegaSquirt products. It is dramatically improved over MS2, with a much faster processor, better accuracy, better I/O complement, on board datalogging, on board long term fuel trims, better interface, fantastic alternator control, and includes the licenses for TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer. Supports both high and low impedance injectors, even 2 stages of sequential fuel. Completely designed, built, sold, and supported out of Suwanee, GA, and in stock.
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02-12-2015, 04:27 PM
#30
That's where a great user-base comes in too. We've got a few threads over at m-s.com for megasquirt people where we help each other out since our cars all are more relative to each other. I've had a few people post up needing some help and I ended up talking to them on the phone.
A little bit more, but I think this is the ECU you want to look at:
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
This is MS3-Pro based, a significantly better design over traditional B&G designed MegaSquirt products. It is dramatically improved over MS2, with a much faster processor, better accuracy, better I/O complement, on board datalogging, on board long term fuel trims, better interface, fantastic alternator control, and includes the licenses for TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer. Completely designed, built, sold, and supported out of Suwanee, GA, and in stock.
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
This is MS3-Pro based, a significantly better design over traditional B&G designed MegaSquirt products. It is dramatically improved over MS2, with a much faster processor, better accuracy, better I/O complement, on board datalogging, on board long term fuel trims, better interface, fantastic alternator control, and includes the licenses for TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer. Completely designed, built, sold, and supported out of Suwanee, GA, and in stock.
I can't wait to install mine
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