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Old 12-28-2011, 04:37 PM   #1
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Default Can I run with no o2 ?

Quick question - Can I run a car without having any o2 sensors?

More indepth information.

I installed a begi s1 kit, lc1 wbo2, mspnp.

Took it to a shop for tuning.

They called today and said that when they use their o2 probe and disconnect the lc1 everything works great. They are able to tune the car drive it around and have no issues.

when they hook the LC1 back to the mspnp the car will not run. They said that for some reason when the LC1 is hooked to the MSPNP it keeps trying to adjust the air fuel ratios and causing the car to run bad.

Is it ok to not have the Wbo2 hooked up? I still have the gague that gives me a visual of the air fuel.

I do not plan on doing any tuning by myself.

Also my narrow band is dissconnected and the cable for it was cut so can not hook that back up.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #2
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It sounds to me like this shop is fully ******* retarded. Do you want us to tell the shop how to do their job? I'm happy to do it, but I'd like to know how much money they're going to give you back since they don't understand tuning fundamentals. I suppose I'll take the high-road: They most likely need to adjust EGO authority until they set the AFR target table to something reasonable. Did you hook up the WBO2 through the factory wire or through #10 on the center connector?

to answer your question:
If you don't want EGO correction and plan to never, ever adjust the tune, then I suppose it's okay. Post the MSQ and we can fix it. We'd also love to see their final MSQ for arm-chair tuning lulz.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:56 PM   #3
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You can run without O2 correction. It sounds as if the shop has set up the O2 correction incorrectly.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:58 PM   #4
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You really should learn how to tune megasquirt yourself. There will be things you'll want to fix over time and you're not going to want to bring it back to the tuner each and every time.

Megasquirt will adjust fuel if such features are enabled. I don't have the software in front of me at the moment, but you should be able to find all applicable info here: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html

Search for o2 correction, AFR target table, etc.

Yes you need your wideband. Does the tuner mean that if they disconnect the LC-1 and stick their probe in the tailpipe there are no issues? Or are they actually wiring in a different wideband? Your tuner should be able to troubleshoot the LC-1 if that is the problem.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:59 PM   #5
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So they cut your o2, disconnected the wide band, but your gauge still works? When the signal is hooked to the computer it runs like crap. Yep, I would be getting somthing back out of the shop. Cash, tools, another dyno tune with it hooked up right.

Love the new pic Hustler!
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miater View Post
Love the new pic Hustlero!
Thanks.

I don't understand why they would physically cut a wire rather than disable EGO correction. There's also the possibility that you did not follow directions on the ground wiring and the sensor is not reading correctly. I say these because about 100% of the local cars I see use the firewall as a ground because they don't understand that electrons power things, rather than protons. lol
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:20 PM   #7
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Shop is seriously retarded and don't know what they're doing.
Take your car away from them asap and get full refund.
/thread
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Shop is seriously retarded and don't know what they're doing.
Take your car away from them asap and get full refund.
/thread

qtf

/thread
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:55 PM   #9
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The lc1 was hooked directly to the mspnp to the pin in the directions.. i believe you are right saying the #10.

I should have been more clear. I think everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the shop just cut my wbo2 wire and told me they can not fix it and go **** myself . that is not the case. The shop has no problem tracing down my wiring and making sure it is right and hooking up the o2.

I am just over my budget and they are giving me the option to take the interior apart and tracking down my wiring and making sure my solder is good and it is grounded right.. or just leave it disconnected and let me trouble shoot it myself. I just wanted to make sure it is ok to run it without a wide band.

Talking to the guys they seem to know what they are talking about but I guess i will not know until i get the car back. in richmond va i do not have many choices of shops. i had to tow it down to va beach just to find someone that would tune a mspnp.

It took me 2 months of a half hour here and there to just install the turbo. Learning to tune the car myself would probably take me the next year. I figure better to take it to get dyno tuned by someone who knew what was going on.

I will be happy to post my msq when i get the car back along with the dyno sheet.

they said it is tuned to 206hp and 198 trq.

The reason i am over my initial $1500 budget. At first i was just buying the begi 5psi setup. after reading posts on here realized that going the band aid route was not the best idea.. so i dropped $500 on a mspnp.. no way i could diy megasquirt. I was up to about $2k.. well if i am going to have the better mspnp might as well get the s1 kit.. so that was another $2k... well if i have that kit my fuel injectors will hold me back.. so got some 460's = $100.. well if i have the bigger injectors the clutch is holding me back so might as well get the act hd clutch $400 bucks.. then I could not get the car to tune.. so took it to the shop.. they installed the clutch, injectors and tuned it for $900 bucks. so my little $1500 weekend project turned into $4500.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:59 PM   #10
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I do not know why they just did not disable it in the software. i should have asked them. i pick up the car in the morning so will find out more information.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:05 PM   #11
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Yes, if the open-loop fuel map is decent, you can run it without an O2 sensor.

So, get it home, and start learning your MS.

I would never tune fuel on a dyno. Between a good wideband and Tunerstudio, street tuning works much better.

Spark you do on the dyno, but you do that after you've been driving the car awhile and are otherwise happy.

Why didn't you use the basemap the mspnp came with to start?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroox View Post
Talking to the guys they seem to know what they are talking about but I guess i will not know until i get the car back.
The MSQ will tell us if they know what they're doing or not.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:37 PM   #13
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Yes, if the open-loop fuel map is decent, you can run it without an O2 sensor.

So, get it home, and start learning your MS.

I would never tune fuel on a dyno. Between a good wideband and Tunerstudio, street tuning works much better.

Spark you do on the dyno, but you do that after you've been driving the car awhile and are otherwise happy.

Why didn't you use the basemap the mspnp came with to start?

I tried and tried to tune the car. i just do not understand how it works. i got the car to idle then tried to use auto tune and it would not work. i tried the base maps and it would not work. i do not understand this stuff. i know for all the experts on here that makes me sound pretty stupid. I just don't understand it. I work 60+ hours a week.. have a new 5 month old baby.. a wife that works full time. to street tune it and test it i have to drive it. cant put a 5 month old in a miata so could only work on it maybe an hour or two a week in little bursts. also i basically begged people to help me on the forums with no luck. i even offered to tow my car to people if they would help me street tune it. and help me trouble shoot what was wrong with it.

my last resort was taking it to someone to get it done or part out/sell the car. some people can pick this stuff up some people cant. i am one of the cants i guess. now seeing that something was wrong with the lc1 maybe the wiring.. and also they had to reload the firmware .. that i did but apparently it was messed up too.. i just could not get it to work.

I think i did pretty good picking the parts.. doing the install of the hardware without being spoon fed on the forum. when it came to the tuning it was and is just over my head with the time I have.

My choice when i got the miata was buy a miata and turbo it or pick up a s2000 or a c5 vette. I had a blast in my first miata so thought doing the turbo would be more fun... at this point it is not
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:38 PM   #14
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The MSQ will tell us if they know what they're doing or not.
I have no doubt when I post it the response will be that it is ****.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:48 PM   #15
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I'm not using my LC1 on my MSPNP - good thing too as I've over-heated it on several occasions. The display just blinks 7.7 I believe, like when you start it up at first. I'm going off MAP, of course, when I change anything in the fuel system (FPR, injectors, pump) or the compressor wheel - then I dyno re-tune it. I'm just using it as a visual reference - not much good after 12 laps and it's flashin 7.7 until I take a cool-down lap. My sensor is also located about 3ft down the pipe too. If I remember right, we had issues with the LC1 resetting on it's own, which was throwing off the MS - and my tuner isn't a dipshit either, he's done many of them so he knew something wasn't right with the LC1 I bought.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:50 PM   #16
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Who in VA beach are you having tune it? You might want to get in contact with Peter Florance at http://www.pftuning.com/. I believe he is in the 757 area and he knows his was around MS and miatas.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:56 PM   #17
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All aspect motorsports.

Hmmm I asked for tuners and never got a response. The guys seemed like they knew what they were taking about. It was them or no one basicaly. Never could get anyone to suggest someone. If it does not work will be parted or sold.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroox View Post
All aspect motorsports.

Hmmm I asked for tuners and never got a response. The guys seemed like they knew what they were taking about. It was them or no one basicaly. Never could get anyone to suggest someone. If it does not work will be parted or sold.
If the car is tuned properly, there is no reason that you can not safely drive it around without the o2 and not have any big problems. If something bad happens you will just not have a real way to know. In all honesty once you get your msq posted up here we can give you a better idea of what needs to be done.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroox View Post
If it does not work will be parted or sold.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I have no doubt when I post it the response will be that it is ****.
...and if it is, we will fix it for you.
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