First drive with turbo and ms. Sputters and backfires at 4k
 

Went for my first drive on brains base maps and above 4k rpm it sputters and backfires and won't accelerate any above 4000 rpm. Rev limit is 7100. Overboost set to 10psi. Will add video shortly. Also I noticed the center led is lit up on my ms now and it never used to.

edit: wont let me upload iphone video but what do i need to log/take screenshot of to be of any benefit to yall?

(Posting from my phone.)

Log.

Like Brain says, datalog and see what's going on that's going to tell you more than any video or picture ever could.

As for the problem, my guesses...

1. Overboost is coming on. Do you have a boost gauge? What is it showing? If it's near 10psi, that's likely your problem

2. Air/Fuel Ratio is overly rich or lean. What is your wideband reading at idle? Under acceleration? Have you adjusted the fuel map at all?

3. Spark Blowout. What are your spark plugs gapped at? Did you go 1 range cooler on the plugs? If the first 2 have been fixed, pull the plugs and decrease the gap.

I've had similar problems to what you describe under all 3 circumstances. When I loaded the basemap on both my cars it was WAYYY off. Unless you're just plain lucky, you've got a good deal of tuning ahead of you.

I'll have to get a log up tomorrow

As far as your questions pdexta
1: max psi is around 7 as I have my wastegate set, gauge confirms it
2: idle is around 11 for the most part under hard acceleration it's around 13.5
3: still have stock plugs. What kind of gap should I be aiming for? And what does ' one plug cooler' mean?

Thanks for the quick response

Needs more fuel in boost, you are detonating.

Are you sure the right basemap is on there? Typically a basemap would be overly rich, not lean.

here are my fuel map, spark map, and req fuel value

on the req fuel calculator, it asks for AFR, it is listed as 14.7 should i lower that to like 12 or 13?

No. Req_Fuel is simply used to scale the fuel table values when calculating injector pulsewidth. You simply need more fuel (higher values) in your VE table under load, and less around idle.

You are either
1. Detonating due to a lean condition. You seriously need more fuel under load. Idle should be 15:1 - 14.5:1 and under boost you should be 12:1-11.5:1 at those boost levels. You adjust these by raising and lowering the values in the VE table NOT the target AFR table (seen this a few times)
or
2. You have spark blowout due to incorrectly gapped plugs. Try lowering your gap to .022-.025 IN ADDITION TO adding more fuel.

Cooler plugs refers to how much heat the spark plug dissipates into the head. Hotter plugs dissipate less than cooler plugs. Hotter plugs tend to run cleaner (not foul as often) but as they are a source of heat in the combustion chamber, then can cause detonation in an already lean mixture or under high load/pressure. I can't remember the plug numbers right now since I haven't bought any in a while, but perhaps someone else can chime in with that.

Good rule of thumb is 1 step colder plug for every additional 100whp btw.

So instead of a like 16 plug go with like 17?or 18?

What's a reasonable step to bump my fuel table by?

Stock plugs are NGK BKR5E, you want BKR7E. If your FLAPS doesn't carry them, you can get a set on ebay for $10-12 delivered.

Can y'all tell from looking at my fuel map if I'm starving for gas in boost? They are just a bunch of numbers to me haha

I'll have to start tuning my fuel map tomorrow. Whats a reasonable step size to adjust my fuel values by? 1?5?10?

Thanks for the suggestions

Yes you need more fuel under boost. And less fuel at idle. You are going to blow your shit up.

still waiting for the log file...

I was having a similar issue at one point in time and it was my spark plugs.

Like ScottFW said, BKR7E and gap them accordingly.

Brain you just want one if those tooth logs?

in tunerstudio at the top
Datalogging > start
save log file, drive around
datalogging > stop

then upload file and tune to here

* drive around and make event occur.

im kinda hesitant to log while purposely hitting a spot that is potentially detonation...
also when looking at my table vs a table brain posted, i have more fuel at high rpm/high boost, and less at low rpm/low boost already...

as far as i know brain is on similar fueling system, stock fuel pump, 460's
am i missing something?

my map is on the left, one brain posted in another thread is on the right

I mean it's possibly you're getting way too rich but the looks of that fuel map. You're adding 20% more fuel within 3psi of boost. But I wouldn't know without seeing a log. Then i can see what the MS is acutally doing and what your inputs (wbo2) are looking like.

Fuel maps mean absolutely SHIT. Post a log.

alright ill go log a run. fingers crossed my engine doesnt blow up :/

Just because someone has the same fuel setup doesn't mean the fuel map and spark map will be the same, differences in intake\exhaust\etc can change how much air is getting into the engine.

Just go around data logging, just while crusing and upload the log and your tune.

alright drove around, some cruising (got stuck behind a prius) and some altering throttle position at given rpm, i can get it to go up to around 5k if im easy on the throttle, if i accelerate a bit more aggresively is when it starts backfiring and popping. i dont hear anything from the engine side, like knocking noises or anything, its just alot of backfiring, sputtering, and popping.

logs below
the first one my cable fell out

Post your MSQ as well.

upload tune as well.

Do you have your wideband connected?

wideband is connected. it looks to be slightly off from what the gauge is reading at idle, but pretty similar when i was out driving around.

but you're not logging AFRs, only volts it appears. I cant access MLV or TS here at work. I'll look later.

also press the spaebar anytime you want us to look at a specific time during your log. that will mark the event.

Go to file > project properties > Settings tab > ego o2 sensor, make sure its selected with the correct wideband sensor.
If what I see is correct, its on narrowband. Make sure its on correct sensor.

Is it possible that the MAP scaling is fucked up?

You should purchase the registered version of tunerstudio and use ve------yze. The base map on diy has a afr target table which would run right on 7psi

Just looking at idle with PW only looks like your way rich, though it reads around 60map value, possible the map sensor settings aren't correct.

This is a MS1, did you build it?

Forgot to ask, did you verify timing yet?

it was still set on narrowband, i thought i had changed that...
im heading up to napa to get those ngk bkr7e plugs, ill log while im headed there
so is it too much data if i just log my whole drive? (10-15 mins)

i was trying to avoid spending another 40$ on software but i guess it would prob be worth it after all the money i have already invested..

why waste money on plugs right now, have you verified timing?

it is a brain built MS1, i verified timing when i first installed it. i since unplugged the main harness to plug into my stock ecu, but my MS1 was not messed with when i did that, just unplugged the harness, when i reconnected the MS1, i shouldnt have to reverify timing right? that value would stay the same


about the map sensor, its set to mpx4250 -250 kpa MS v2.2 which is right i believe since i have the v2.2 board

verify timing again to make sure. do not waste money on plugs yet, once you verified timing and make sure its ok, just let it idle and datalog for a minute or two idling literally. After that stop car, open datalog and verify wideband input is correct. Post up idle datalog after then. Buying plugs just to replace them without getting the tune fixed will just ruin more plugs.

reguards to the sensor, v2.2 sensor means nothing. If you didn't build it you need to verify with who did and who you bought it from to make sure which sensor it is. you can have various map sensors in there that look the same as the 2.5bar one. 2.5bar is just a common one the kits come with.

15-20 minutes worth of datalogs will not be to much data at all. I have logs of me driving for over an hour.

Stop being a cheap JEW and spend the $40 on TS. It is worth every penny. Also Phil the guy who made TS is a great guy and the money is going straight to him, not some big corporation.

log of idling below

also, after i stopped logging, i altered the fuel table around 55-75 kpa and 800-120 rpm
its at 45-40 and i lowered it incrementally all the way to 30 and my AFR seemed to still stay around 10.5-11

went ahead and paid for TS registration and MegalogViewer just waiting on the email now. I wasnt aware it was money going to someone on the forum here. makes it that much more worth it.

ill have to do some reading on the VE analyze stuff but i guess just use the AFR table then let it do the rest?

which table did you alter, the AFR table or the FUEL VE table? Just have to make sure.
Made sure there is no vacuum leaks after the throttle body?

i was looking at fuel VE table

how do i get to the AFR table in VE analyze?

GVE in the datalog shows 38 the whole time, anytime you mess with, change "ANY" setting, DATALOG! If changing the fuel VE talble did not change or alter fueling at all something is wrong.

Did you you burn the settings after changing them to see if would change after being burnt in?

i changed the values in the four cells around idle, and clicked burn. i lowered as much as 10 in all of them and it didnt change much. i just autotuned at idle tho and it changed them to around 19-25 so i guess i just hadnt changed them enough. i wasnt sure what a reasonable step size was to test.

also just to clarify, check my afr target table, 14.7 around idle and low kpa, then decreasing to 12 in high rpm, high boost, then just click autotune and drive around?

when im autotuning, is it temporarily running off the autotune maps, then if i dont say burn, it will just go back to how the ecu was running before?

yes, just make sure your wideband is attached, working and reading correctly. Accuracy of autotune depends on it.

just sitting here idling, ms says my AFR is fluctuating from 13-15 while my gauge is reading right around 14. is MS just overly sensitive? the MS AFR needle bounces around alot more than my analog gauge does

and not sure if it matters but to get the correct display in my dashboard, i have to look at "air:fuel ratio2" as the "air:fuel ratio" doesnt display anything..it just sits at 9.0

Whats your map read at idle

57-58kpa

i went and autotuned it, when it started sputtering i tried to push through it so autotune could correct it but it didnt seem to help too much.

Don't ever push though, in that area how much fuel is getting there?
Check your logs

high 50s is not correct for a good idle area on a normal turbo 1.6,l should be around low 30s. Check for vacuum leaks.

it leaned me out in high rpm, starting to boost, and richened me up in low rpm low pressure?

that seems backwards...

is not right. major issues going on with your install.

1. youre fueling a constant value.
2. you should be idling around 30kPa
3. your MS is not reading your o2 input correctly.

its not backwards, it depends on what you are trying to hit AFR wise in those areas, obviously you should look at your datalogs to see what the afr was when you went into those areas to tell whats going on.

Personally I would stop worrying about the tune and figure out why its idling around 60kpa, do you have a boost gauge hooked up that shows vacuum as well? what does the boost gauge say at idle?

the boost gauge is reading around 8 in vacuum, whatever that is like InHg or something? but also its a crappy analog gauge that only reads around 4 psi when MS is telling me ~8

brain, problem with install of software? or install of the unit? i have vacuum line from fpr to MS and T'd to the analog gauge. everything else (wiring harness and unit internals) you did. I soldered the pink wire to the spot you told me to through pms, and hooked the output 2 from my lc1 to the stock wiring in the engine bay (i realize i could have just hooked the lc1 output directly to the pink wire but i wanted it to be as easy as possible to revert to stock if something went wrong so i could keep driving it for the time being)

I might just get it dyno tuned professionally, because then they would be using their own o2 sensor etc

after so much money invested i dont want to end up blowing my engine because one of my sensors might be faulty

what does the boost guage read when you have the car off?
What does the ecu MAP sensor read with power on, but car not running.

I think you have a issue with the map sensor on the ecu, 8in hg is around 27kpa.

car off=analog boost gauge reads= 3 InHg
(its a cheap shitty gauge, it sticks something awful)
car on/not running ecu map sensor=97kpa

ok so its 97kpa, check local weather report to see what current pressure\barometer is to verify what it probably should be around

If you know it's a cheap, shitty gauge, why did you install it? Buy a decent gauge so we can actually help you.

I would check for vacuum leaks. Idle should be 18-20 on the gauge and ~30's on MS. Also, take the glass of the shitty gauge and make the needle point to Zero when not in use.

I didnt know it was going to be so shitty til i installed it and saw it performed shitty.
ill take it apart and try correcting it

current conditions are 30.19 InHg or 102.23 kpa
is that an acceptable error? only lines hooked up are from fpr tee to a tee under my dash which feeds MS and boost gauge. they all sound/look fine with no leaks. would it read higher if i had a vac leak somewhere else? like going to my BOV or brake booster or something i havent tampered with?

102kpa in your area and it reads 97kpa, seems wrong. if it is a 2.5 bar sensor may need to make sure the configuration is set to 2.5 bar in the ecu properly aka voltage to map

Whenever I check my local conditions and my map its very close

i removed and plugged the line that was feeding my shitty boostgauge to eleiminate that crappy plastic hosing that comes with it as a source of leak, and removed my bov vac line incase that caused a leak, and looped the two vac sources at the throttle body with vac line so they are sealed. only vac line now is from a tee between my fpr, which is all new vac hose, and goes stright to the back of my ms. still says ~58 kpa



how would i go about checking the volt=>map settings?