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Old 02-20-2012, 05:24 PM   #1
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Default Huster is tuning Jeff's 99SC blow-through, come answer questions

I have severe enrichment problems and idle issues. This car has a blow-through set-up where the supercharger is always pushing air. When the throttle is closed, the BOV is open and venting air, when you ever-so slightly touch the throttle, the BOV shuts and you have lots of air. Its a real bitch.

Idle:
I adjusted the PID control interval down to 62 from 100 and things got better, but they're still not right. I've played with the PID settings a bit, but it's still unpredicable and dies occasionally. Any thoughts from the supercharger crew?

Enrichment drama:
The car does not like positive MAP. I turned-off enrichments all together and the car will not idle. When I switch to MAP enrichment, the car will barely run, even with PW set to zero. It won't even idle. I want to run MAP enrichment because of the supercharger set-up which "behaves like a large-plenum" set-up where a tiny throttle input doesn't tell the story of airflow.

What do I not understand?
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Huster is tuning Jeff's 99SC blow-through, come answer questions-jeff-idle.png  
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File Type: msq 6.msq (84.2 KB, 98 views)

Last edited by hustler; 02-20-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:35 PM   #2
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You didn't tell me the car wouldn't idle with the enrichments off. You should not need enrichments at idle. Something else is wrong.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:59 PM   #3
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After a little more work, and power-cycling after turning off TPSaccel and turning on MAPaccel, the car is drivable. However, I still have this strange problem where going into boost makes the car buck and stutter. The AFR gauge is reading full rich, the MS-output is reading 7.5:1 which tells me Jeff may have the outputs swapped, but I believe we confirmed this was not the case after looking in Logworks.

If you look at the MSQ I attached, you'll notice that its most likely not going to be insano-rich with the VE values I have on the fuel table. I'm obviously overlooking something here.

I attached a log.

Edit: log file is too large.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:19 PM   #4
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Can I at least get a second set of eyes on the MSQ to let me know if there is anything I'm overlooking before I waste more time?
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
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I have severe enrichment problems and idle issues. This car has a blow-through set-up where the supercharger is always pushing air. When the throttle is closed, the BOV is open and venting air, when you ever-so slightly touch the throttle, the BOV shuts and you have lots of air. Its a real bitch.
Sounds like a recipe for an undriveable POS. Is there really only one TB, and it's after the blower??
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:59 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Sounds like a recipe for an undriveable POS. Is there really only one TB, and it's after the blower??
Sounds like every single Rotrex setup, and they're all perfectly driveable.

I have personally tuned a blow-through M45 on an MS1 or MS2 (I can't remember which, he upgraded at one point and I don't remember whether I tuned it before or after) and there were absolutely no issues with enrichment, lean/rich tip-in, etc. I maintain that you have a serious issue that has nothing to do with the enrichment settings.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:00 AM   #7
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Log and current .msq please.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Log and current .msq please.
MSQ is loaded, I can email you the log tonight. For some reason I cannot upload the log here, maybe it's too big...although its only about 10-minutes in duration.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:56 AM   #9
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Please upload your ini. I need it to view your msq as it looks like you're running a custom firmware.

I agree with savington though--something's not right. Enrichments don't idle a car and should not be active at all at idle.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:03 AM   #10
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Please upload your ini. I need it to view your msq as it looks like you're running a custom firmware.

I agree with savington though--something's not right. Enrichments don't idle a car and should not be active at all at idle.
Maybe Reverant or Jeff can upload it, I don't have it on my work computer. I used Reverant's emailed INI. I've dug through the settings a dozen times, it all looks right with nothing jumping out at me.

Also, if the log says I'm seeing 7.5 AFR, the outputs are 10-20 and 7.35-22.35, that means he crossed the outputs, right? If that's the case, which I believe it is, then its ancilliary because the VE values are so low above 100kpa that it should still lean out in some capacity and be drivable.

Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:32 PM   #11
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Sounds like every single Rotrex setup, and they're all perfectly driveable.
Ahh, hustler, does the car use a centrifugal s/c?

Quote:
I have personally tuned a blow-through M45
Now that sounds like an undriveable POS. If not then I'm all ears on how the flow can be modulated with a single butterfly after a positive displacement blower.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:57 PM   #12
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Ahh, hustler, does the car use a centrifugal s/c?

Now that sounds like an undriveable POS. If not then I'm all ears on how the flow can be modulated with a single butterfly after a positive displacement blower.
MP62. It requires miniscule throttle inputs to transition to throttle without spinning tires.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:24 PM   #13
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7.5AFR? You would be able to tell if your meter is in calibration by the smell, sound, and smoke.

Also, have you just plain ol' idling fat?
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:43 PM   #14
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7.5AFR? You would be able to tell if your meter is in calibration by the smell, sound, and smoke.

Also, have you just plain ol' idling fat?
I can easily make it idle at 14.7...but is that really 14.7? I am going to follow up on this, its an easy answer. I guess I'll will go back and take-off the BOV so it will hopefully vent all "boost" and go from there. You can easily see in the VE table that it should not be as rich as it's behaving.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:29 PM   #15
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Measure the wideband's output voltage at the ECU pin. 0V = full rich.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:54 PM   #16
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Measure the wideband's output voltage at the ECU pin. 0V = full rich.
I will.

What are your thoughts on the car bucking and puking black fuel smoke from VE table values of 60-30? This tells me something is not right because it should come alive at some point.

I'm going to go back to the car and pretend its a fresh instal and check everything like I would on my car.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
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What are your thoughts on the car bucking and puking black fuel smoke from VE table values of 60-30?
Classic symptom of a MAP sensor without a vaccuum line connected to it.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:22 AM   #18
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Classic symptom of a MAP sensor without a vaccuum line connected to it.
Yeah, good call out. We've all done it.

If you're pulling stong vac, then check the plugs for consistency.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:18 PM   #19
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What should our injector dead-time be for EV14 550cc injectors?

Can someone also check my injector/sequential settings since all of those concepts are new to me?

Thanks.
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Last edited by hustler; 03-01-2012 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:19 PM   #20
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PM me your E-Mail address and we can talk there.
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