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Old 06-26-2011, 12:52 AM   #1
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Default Innovate LC-1 pegged rich

Hi guys,

I noticed this issue this week. The LC-1 works properly at the beginning, then suddenly goes lean, then rich and gets pegged there. If I turn off and restart the engine, it resets, but does it again. So I found the EGO pulling fuel all over, and had to disable EGO for the time being.

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Anyone know what this is? I have to get the LED to read the error code, if any. Is this an overheating sensor? Or does it need a calibration?

Thanks. Ah joy. Another issue.

Greg
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Old 06-26-2011, 10:55 AM   #2
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redo the firmware like everyone suggests.
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Old 06-28-2011, 04:41 AM   #3
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Checked the firmware- it was 1.10. Downgraded it to 1.00a. So far so good.
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Old 06-28-2011, 05:40 AM   #4
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Also you don't need the LED to read the code, just fire up Logworks
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:07 PM   #5
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Downgrade firmware to 1.0a then update to the beta 1.2 fixed the same problem for me. Don't forget to do another free air calibration.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:13 PM   #6
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Where'd you get 1.2 beta? Could someone please post it here? Thanks.

Yup, will do a free air calibration.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:17 PM   #7
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http://forum.nistune.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1902

I found it in this thread, just scroll down.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:19 PM   #8
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:23 PM   #9
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Thanks for the link. I still get E-8's after long drives even with the 1.0 firmware. I'll try this if I ever get around to driving my car again..
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:32 AM   #10
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Adding information from the first link above, for easier future reference.

Quote:
i've had issues where my LC1 will randomly throw an error and stop supplying NB SIM output to the ECU, causing the car to run nothing short of undriveably bad until the wire for the narrowband simulation is disconnected from the ECU.

Giving the car a lot of load or a big rev making EGT's spike then following with a long period of trailing throttle would usually cause the issue (i.e giving a hit through 1st and 2nd and then straight into 6th and cruise). Also trailing throttle for extended periods of time (such as down a very long hill on the freeway) would also sometimes cause the issue.

The issue is due to the sensor heating routine seeing the temperature rise, but not antisipating the temperature fall so quickly and it doesn't enable the heater which causes the sensor to give a slow response and flag the error, which the LC1 won't recover from without a power cycle.

The "fix" is as follows:

Revert to Firmware 1.00 (devices in recent times usually shipped with 1.10 or 1.10a).
Install Beta Firmware 1.20RC4.

All reports are that the 1.20RC4 (*BETA*) fixes the issue.

Reverting to 1.00 has seen some increased heating times and slower (or as reported) smoother AFR response where the value doesn't jump around as much.

I have also been warned that you MUST have a stable and reliable connection with the LC1 through the Innovate LM Programmer software before attempting a firmware update.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:07 AM   #11
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Ahaha! Of course it's a PID problem! >.<

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Hello,

I have recently spent some time investigating E8 issues on several devices including LC-1s. There is a lot of confusion about what causes an E8. The truth is that lots of failures will cause an E8. The E8 is a general sensor timing error. The direct digital pulse is not responding as expected. Here are some possible causes:

1) sensor out of temperature range.
2) hardware problems inside the DD device (typically opamp failure)
3) cracked sensor (usually caused by shock cooling the sensor, thus the need for extended bungs).

Now, assuming there are no hardware problems (cases 2 and 3 above) the most likely E8 cause is the sensor out of temperature range. Our customer service has mentioned "over cooling" in the past. The reason this can happen is due to the heater algorithm that we use. It is a PID loop. The original poster of this thread has the classic example of over cooling. When he was on the throttle hard the sensor heats up. Suddenly he let off the throttle. At that point our PID loop had whatís called integral windup. Itís an error condition that takes some time for the heater to correct. So while the sensor was cooling down (via the cold air while off the throttle) the Integral had to wind down before it could start applying the heater again. Meanwhile the sensor got too cool and could no longer take DD readings. At that point it threw an E8.

Now for the good news! We have developed a new PID algorithm that will respond to Integral windup faster. So it will be able to almost immediately start applying the heater to keep the sensor within operating temperature. In addition to that scenario it will handle the scenario where the sensor can over cool even when the sensor heater is on full blast. This scenario is not as common but is possible. The new algorithm will set the LC-1 into a re-heating mode and re-try readings. This would be a temporary E8 condition while the sensor is heating up. In the past the LC-1 would throw the E8 and give up.

The fix is in the form of a new firmware. I have been testing it for months now and would like to start beta testing it in the field. If any of you would like to try the new FW please let me know. Ideally I would like someone that can reproduce the E8 problem like the original poster described. After the new FW is installed I would like to know if it fixed the problem. I would like to stress extreme caution when upgrading FW on an LC-1 as if the download fails the only way to fix it is to cut it open which destroys the rubber overmold. Test the connection on you computer via LM Programmer and Logworks before trying a FW upgrade!!

Scott VanDell
Innovate Motorsports
Hardware Engineer
One important thing is it will now attempt to reset itself if it gets into N E8 condition!

Oh, decel fuel cut has also been suggest as a contributory factor. Anyone with more info on this?

Last edited by Greg G; 07-01-2011 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:59 PM   #12
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Tried it today, and to my suprise bricked my controller. I say suprise, because I have had no issue with firmware updates in the past.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:53 AM   #13
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Hmm. I tried updating to 1.20 beta from 1.00A, and it failed twice! Something about failed to communicate. No issues with flashing 1.00A from 1.10 with the same computer & USB-serial cable.

Remembered your message above, so I didn't force it. The wideband is still working, so I didn't push my luck.
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