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Old 08-28-2013, 07:00 PM   #21
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I'll say it.

I don't like to calibrate.

The first time, as per above, it makes rich tuning imprecise.

That sucks.

Every time after that, it requires uninstalling the wideband from where ever it is and doing it again. And again. And again, if you put miles on the car or have it for a while.

If it were a one time thing, and it didn't screw things up, it would be fine, but it's not the case that was represented.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #22
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I've always liked the AEM and don't really have anything major against them. But I want to know my sensor is correct.

It's a fact that the sensor will go out of calibration over time. You can be sad about having to recalibrate after the first 3 months and then being fine for 10000 miles, or you can be sad all the time for having a wb02 constantly out of calibration.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:30 PM   #23
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On the topic of MTXs, I recall somebody saying the MTX doesn't ground out to the ECU? Making the wideband signal to the ECU not as accurate as the LC1? Is there any truth to this?
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:32 PM   #24
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I'll be grounding mine at the ECU. I mean you can choose where to ground it... It's just a black wire.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:47 PM   #25
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I never said nor meant that you were "everyone" but by that I meant that I see a lot of people wining about calibration like it's some major chore.

I really do think some of you are making the calibration thing out to be more of a hassle than it really is. I've seen them (innovate products) go just fine for extended periods without constant calibrations, I don't calibrate my permanent install widebands constantly and they work just fine. I do however calibrate my lm1 every time I put it into a customers car because its just a matter of pushing a button and waiting a couple of seconds before I screw the sensor in.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:49 PM   #26
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Probably.

But since the AEM and the LC-1 both are in widespread use, as a lazy sonofabitch I'll always go with the one that requires less work.

If it's accurate enough for Savington's race cars it's accurate enough for me.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
It already does...hint hint, more to come in a few days.
Will MS3 Basics bought from your first run be compatible with it, Rev?
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Probably.

But since the AEM and the LC-1 both are in widespread use, as a lazy sonofabitch I'll always go with the one that requires less work.

If it's accurate enough for Savington's race cars it's accurate enough for me.
What's funny is for race cars they recommend calibrating it even more often. I find it unlikely he runs the same sensor for long. But I could be wrong. Maybe he can shed some light.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:11 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Will MS3 Basics bought from your first run be compatible with it, Rev?
Yes.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
I've always liked the AEM and don't really have anything major against them. But I want to know my sensor is correct.

It's a fact that the sensor will go out of calibration over time. You can be sad about having to recalibrate after the first 3 months and then being fine for 10000 miles, or you can be sad all the time for having a wb02 constantly out of calibration.
You dont seem to know how calibration works. When you calibrate thats it. From there the calibration is stored in your controller until you recalibrate and over-write it. It doesnt magically change the calibration settings to throw off your readings. What happens is the actual sensor in the exhaust starts reading wrong as it gets coated in carbon and other **** coming out of the motor. With the LC1 you can recalibrate and the new calibration will be ok. With AEM on the other hand it is what it is and you're fucked. The only way to get the correct reading is with a new sensor. AEM and Innovate both use the same bosch wideband sensor.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:59 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
You dont seem to know how calibration works. When you calibrate thats it. From there the calibration is stored in your controller until you recalibrate and over-write it. It doesnt magically change the calibration settings to throw off your readings. What happens is the actual sensor in the exhaust starts reading wrong as it gets coated in carbon and other **** coming out of the motor. With the LC1 you can recalibrate and the new calibration will be ok. With AEM on the other hand it is what it is and you're fucked. The only way to get the correct reading is with a new sensor. AEM and Innovate both use the same bosch wideband sensor.
What the **** are you talking about? That is exactly how I think it works. I'm talking about the AEM being out of calibration all the time. I'm saying you can either man up and get the LC-1 and at least be able to calibrate it and know it's correct, or get the AEM and have a sensor that will read off.
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
You dont seem to know how calibration works. When you calibrate thats it. From there the calibration is stored in your controller until you recalibrate and over-write it. It doesnt magically change the calibration settings to throw off your readings. What happens is the actual sensor in the exhaust starts reading wrong as it gets coated in carbon and other **** coming out of the motor. With the LC1 you can recalibrate and the new calibration will be ok. With AEM on the other hand it is what it is and you're fucked. The only way to get the correct reading is with a new sensor. AEM and Innovate both use the same bosch wideband sensor.
Que? That's pretty much exactly what he said....
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:44 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
They share the only thing I care about: they need to be calibrated every 3 months.

That's more of a "want" than a need.

Dirty secret confession time: I haven't calibrated my LC-1 in.... 3 years.


****, i didn't even build the calibration circuit into my install. Which is a little annoying, because now i have to figure out how to calibrate it when i pull everything for the next/final step for the F2T: Records, or Blaze of Glory.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:17 PM   #34
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I'll just leave this here: "Why do I need to calibrate the O2 sensor with Innovate products?" The answer is simple… Accuracy!

Get past the sales pitch and there are facts in there.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
What the **** are you talking about? That is exactly how I think it works. I'm talking about the AEM being out of calibration all the time. I'm saying you can either man up and get the LC-1 and at least be able to calibrate it and know it's correct, or get the AEM and have a sensor that will read off.
Hmm everybody bitches about having to recalibrate the LC1s, i thought thats what you were saying when by "your sensor will go out of calibration"
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:27 AM   #36
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An LC1/MTX-L will not go out of calibration any more than an AEM.

So, let me get this straight. The AEM is better because it does not give you the option to calibrate it... that makes sense.

Ive been trying to resist beating the dead horse, but holy ******* **** you guys are going to make me say it.
All this calibration **** aside, the AEM has a screen refresh rate slower the the heart rate of a dead dog. Its a pile of ****, and if it wasn't for it being fairly accurate, and the old LC-1 being slightly too difficult to install for people with a <80 IQ, I would have never recommended the damn thing. I used to recommend it as a good gauge for non-tuners to keep an eye on AFRs, but now with the MTX-L, there is no reason for anybody to buy an AEM.
The MTX-L does everything the AEM does, it does it better, and it is just as easy to install. Most people dont need to throw their AEM in the trash, but buying a new one now is borderline retarded behavior.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikes View Post
On the topic of MTXs, I recall somebody saying the MTX doesn't ground out to the ECU? Making the wideband signal to the ECU not as accurate as the LC1? Is there any truth to this?
The LC-1 has a ground and a sensor ground, so you can hook the grounds up to the right places. Not sure why they deleted this in the MTX-L (it was a good thing).

If you are using a MegaSquirt then it will be reading from an analog out so getting grounds right is very important. My ECU uses the serial data from the MTX-L so it's not so much of a problem.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:35 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timk View Post
If you are using a MegaSquirt then it will be reading from an analog out so getting grounds right is very important. My ECU uses the serial data from the MTX-L so it's not so much of a problem.
You sure its analog? I thought Rev said that was corrected long time ago. Either way LC1 supports digital. I'm using it for my Adaptonic.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:13 PM   #39
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We had these arrive at our shop last week. Ben's going to be testing one out on one of his own project cars.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:12 PM   #40
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Nice mind taking some pics or does it look no different than the LC1?
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