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Old 09-26-2013, 04:04 PM   #61
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Innovate sucks. When I was on my 3rd LC-1 in 2 cars it was all whacked out. I called them for assistance and they talked me into trying a new sensor. Then, after I gave them another $60 for the sensor, they decided the controller was dead. Rather than offer-up any type of warranty or customer loyalty discount, they told me to go away and pay full price.

Then I wised-up and bought an AEM. No Rube Goldberg of ground wires. Just power, ******* ground, ******* signal, **** yeah. It works, three wires, done. Hopefully when the AEM breaks they treat me better than Innovate, which won't be difficult even if the company is blasted by an asteroid and ceases to exist.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:53 PM   #62
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Then I wised-up and bought an AEM. No Rube Goldberg of ground wires. Just power, ******* ground, ******* signal, **** yeah. It works, three wires, done.
Ya it works, with an output voltage offset... which changes depending on how hot the exhaust downpipe is.

Really how Rube Goldberg is this 2 ground connection?:
- Connect the signal ground wire to the ECU signal ground pin.
- Connect the power ground wire to the head or block.

It is the correct engineering solution to the problem of having an analog output on a wideband.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:17 AM   #63
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Innovate sucks. When I was on my 3rd LC-1 in 2 cars it was all whacked out. I called them for assistance and they talked me into trying a new sensor. Then, after I gave them another $60 for the sensor, they decided the controller was dead. Rather than offer-up any type of warranty or customer loyalty discount, they told me to go away and pay full price.

Then I wised-up and bought an AEM. No Rube Goldberg of ground wires. Just power, ******* ground, ******* signal, **** yeah. It works, three wires, done. Hopefully when the AEM breaks they treat me better than Innovate, which won't be difficult even if the company is blasted by an asteroid and ceases to exist.
Hate to say it big guy but theres so much fail in those 2 paragraphs... you're using resistance sensitive equipment on something that changes resistance with temperature and continuous use. If the ground wires are such a pain in the *** where you would go with AEM just to not deal with it why run a wideband at all? Just bury your head in the sand and hope ur **** dont blow.

Even if you dont waste time grounding them properly run the gauge and the controller grounds together and run digital signal to the ecu.

As far as the sensor... you can go to vatozone and buy one off the store. i think it was 54 bucks. As far as the warranty, AEM will tell u the same thing.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:57 AM   #64
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Hate to say it big guy but theres so much fail in those 2 paragraphs... you're using resistance sensitive equipment on something that changes resistance with temperature and continuous use. If the ground wires are such a pain in the *** where you would go with AEM just to not deal with it why run a wideband at all? Just bury your head in the sand and hope ur **** dont blow.

Even if you dont waste time grounding them properly run the gauge and the controller grounds together and run digital signal to the ecu.

As far as the sensor... you can go to vatozone and buy one off the store. i think it was 54 bucks. As far as the warranty, AEM will tell u the same thing.
oh COME ON!!

You guys are getting so carried away with this crap I can just see in the near future people making statements like " aem wideband = bandaids and piggy backs"......."bolt it on if you want your car to blow up"....etc..

Yeah we get it: its not as fast and averages out values at times. Hundreds of thousands of cars are running them, are tuned with them, and have zero issues. Every car I tuned before my current had an aem.

Stop being so dramatic.

PS: I'm using the innovate mtx right now. Not bad, but I hate the yellow lighting and I HATE HATE HATE HATE how long it takes for this stupid thing to warm up. Hopefully the lc2 improves on that, and if so I'll probably try one.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:36 AM   #65
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The difference in resistance from grounding it to the body by the shifter to the block or to the ecu is about 1 point on the afr scale. This means instead of tunning for 12 afr you're really running at 13 afr at 20psi

Hmm i've never used the mtx. i always thought the mtx was just the gauge but with the same controller as everything else? I'm using the DB gauge with the LC1 controller... takes all of 30 seconds to warm up and give me a reading. If i am focusing on cranking values or warmup enrichments i have a bypass switch that can manually turn it on full time or turn it off completely. That way the sensor is already warmed up and showing me readings while i'm cranking and right after.

Last edited by triple88a; 09-27-2013 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:15 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Hate to say it big guy but theres so much fail in those 2 paragraphs... you're using resistance sensitive equipment on something that changes resistance with temperature and continuous use. If the ground wires are such a pain in the *** where you would go with AEM just to not deal with it why run a wideband at all? Just bury your head in the sand and hope ur **** dont blow.

Even if you dont waste time grounding them properly run the gauge and the controller grounds together and run digital signal to the ecu.

As far as the sensor... you can go to vatozone and buy one off the store. i think it was 54 bucks. As far as the warranty, AEM will tell u the same thing.
Let's not forget that with the LC-1 and a gauge you had to run separate grounds for the heater and sensor ground soldered to the same lug as the computer, the gauge ground, then the calibration wire and ground. It's a huge ******* mess of wire and even when done properly I still had to adjust the scale to match the dyno on one output, adjust the gauge to match on the other.

Yes, I could have gone to Vato zone but Innovate guy told me to use his sensor, I had him on the phone, so I ordered. However, he incorrectly diagnosed the problem and I was out more money with no respite.

If this one fails in 3 years, I'll buy a different wideband. Electronics should last longer than three years. Companies should care enough to treat customers better, so I moved on.

I tuned my car with the AEM and saw no changes in AFR compared to the LC-1 on the Dyno. I also tracked the car hard for a long time and saw no variation in readings at WOT. I have not seen a 1-point change in my car from idle on the grid to 20-seconds of WOT at TWS on the front stretch.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:16 AM   #67
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The difference in resistance from grounding it to the body by the shifter to the block or to the ecu is about 1 point on the afr scale. This means instead of tunning for 12 afr you're really running at 13 afr at 20psi
Who said we grounded it at the body? Please, come the **** on. Is the best you can do?
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:25 AM   #68
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What if we alligator clip the ground to a chicano-antenna? That might bolster your argument and assuage the homosexual thought for a moment. Only for a moment though, because we know you crave the warmth of a man. You're a dirty twink, you need the sin.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:16 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
The difference in resistance from grounding it to the body by the shifter to the block or to the ecu is about 1 point on the afr scale. This means instead of tunning for 12 afr you're really running at 13 afr at 20psi

Hmm i've never used the mtx. i always thought the mtx was just the gauge but with the same controller as everything else? I'm using the DB gauge with the LC1 controller... takes all of 30 seconds to warm up and give me a reading. If i am focusing on cranking values or warmup enrichments i have a bypass switch that can manually turn it on full time or turn it off completely. That way the sensor is already warmed up and showing me readings while i'm cranking and right after.

Ok now i are getting scared.

My LC-1 is running on a stock ECU car, but i AM using narrowband simulation to feed the stock ECU. Wideband signal is being used for display purposes only.

I didn't ground my **** to the ECU or the block. I have an aux fuse block that i use to power things like this, and there's a ground lug on it as well. Drawing directly to battery.

Is my wideband DISPLAY 1 point off?
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:32 PM   #70
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What if we alligator clip the ground to a chicano-antenna? That might bolster your argument and assuage the homosexual thought for a moment. Only for a moment though, because we know you crave the warmth of a man. You're a dirty twink, you need the sin.
ilu hustley
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:01 PM   #71
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Ok now i are getting scared.

My LC-1 is running on a stock ECU car, but i AM using narrowband simulation to feed the stock ECU. Wideband signal is being used for display purposes only.

I didn't ground my **** to the ECU or the block. I have an aux fuse block that i use to power things like this, and there's a ground lug on it as well. Drawing directly to battery.

Is my wideband DISPLAY 1 point off?
I had my **** grounded to one of the bolts that holds the shifter boot at first before I grounded it to the ecu. I have both, the stock narrowband and the wideband connected so i do see both readings. With the ground connected at the body by the shifter it showed 1 point richer then what the narrowband showed. When i ground it to the ecu it showed .2 richer than the narrowband.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #72
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who cares about all that.

just ask Tuning Done Right, they'll tell you how to tune around all that
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:06 PM   #73
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Well... what I'm asking is: because I didn't ground to ecu... when my display shows 11.8:1 under full boost, am I really 10.8?

I really don't care what's fed to my ecu as long as the end afrs are good.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:19 PM   #74
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I'm guessing this doesn't matter so much when it's not feeding a standalone, correct?
Correct.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:00 PM   #75
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Well **** me... Just ordered an lc-2. Need it cause I have a brain ms3x on its way to me this week so I'm going to go insane if I can't start playing with it right away lol. I'll be running stock for a little while to learn how to tune and should have my turbo setup up and running in the spring. I have no previous wideband experience but I'll be sure to post up my impressions once I have everything running
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:22 PM   #76
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Mine is here, but it will be a few days before I get the chance to put it in. Other obligations.

According to the instructions, it does require calibration.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:47 PM   #77
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Mine is here, but it will be a few days before I get the chance to put it in. Other obligations.

According to the instructions, it does require calibration.
Funny you mention that... I downloaded the manual tonight and Ialso read that... I aalmost did a double take lol
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:37 AM   #78
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Update to LC-2.
Installed with factory ECU and G5 Gauge (analog). No MS yet.

The unit does require a free-air cal, but it is fairly straightforward. No heater cal. As I understand, the LC-1 had 2 cal operations. That is perhaps the confusion over "no cal needed".

Seems to work fine. Located at end of stock 99 down pipe. Bounces from 14.5 to 15.5 under most conditions. Goes full lean at deceleration, and goes to 13.0 above 1/2 throttle. Never goes a little lean under light load.

I understand that this is correct for stock ECU control.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:19 AM   #79
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Let's not forget that with the LC-1 and a gauge you had to run separate grounds for the heater and sensor ground soldered to the same lug as the computer, the gauge ground, then the calibration wire and ground.
No. Signal ground wire goes to signal ground pin on ECU connector, power ground wire goes to head.

Their instructions suck. They weren't written by the guy who designed the guts.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:08 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Update to LC-2.
Installed with factory ECU and G5 Gauge (analog). No MS yet.

The unit does require a free-air cal, but it is fairly straightforward. No heater cal. As I understand, the LC-1 had 2 cal operations. That is perhaps the confusion over "no cal needed".

Seems to work fine. Located at end of stock 99 down pipe. Bounces from 14.5 to 15.5 under most conditions. Goes full lean at deceleration, and goes to 13.0 above 1/2 throttle. Never goes a little lean under light load.

I understand that this is correct for stock ECU control.
very interesting, thanks for the feedback.
I was actually really curious what the stock ecu fueling looked like, and was about to try this out myself.
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