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No start after LS coil conversion

 
Old 05-13-2019, 05:19 PM
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Default No start after LS coil conversion

Some background info, I have a 1.8 swap into a 91 chassis and was using the stock 1.6 coilpack with a MS2PNP. A couple of weeks ago, my car wouldn't start and I found that I had melted a coilpack, and decided that it was time to upgrade to LS coils. I ordered the complete conversion kit from Nigel over at Flowforce and am now getting a no start. The car will turn over but is not getting spark, I do not get an RPM signal, and the MS does not register the car as cranking. I followed the instructions on Flowforce's website, and left the stock coilpack connector unplugged. Furthermore, I jump pins 4 & 5 on the igniter, but I'm confused as to what I need to do on the MS side of things (Pin 2I?). As always, I have pictures to verify the wiring is correct, along with current tune and a few logs.



Attached Files
File Type: msq
CurrentTune.msq (117.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: msl
2019-05-11_17.42.33.msl (805.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: msl
2019-05-13_15.30.13.msl (61.8 KB, 5 views)
File Type: msl
2019-05-11_17.47.54.msl (99.1 KB, 6 views)
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:11 AM
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Don't the LS coils have integral ignitors and the 1.6 have external igniter box? This would cause me to believe you need to intercept the signal going into the igniter and not use the stock igniter.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:28 AM
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1.6 ignitor should not be used. Also, I ran into a similar issue with no rpm. I ran a wire from tach output on the megasquirt directly to my gauge cluster for tachometer input.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by andym View Post
1.6 ignitor should not be used. Also, I ran into a similar issue with no rpm. I ran a wire from tach output on the megasquirt directly to my gauge cluster for tachometer input.
I am not using the igniter for the 1.6, its still bolted in, but was never plugged back in. And to clarify, you ran a new wire from the MS options plug into the gauge cluster?

Last edited by Docterhow; 05-14-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Docterhow View Post
I am not using the igniter for the 1.6, its still bolted in, but was never plugged back in. And to clarify, you ran a new wire from the MS options plug into the gauge cluster?
That is what I did on my ms3.
Have you tried going into test mode and manually enabling each coil individually to see where your fault lies?
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:34 PM
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I kept my pin 4&5 loop at the igniter, then the black and white wire at Pin 2I on the ecu connector is not connected into the MS2 options plug for tachout (pin 4). I also made sure to enable the tachout setting in Tunerstudio. The coils are not wired for sequential, so I don't think I can test them individually, but I did do a composite log in test mode. I tried for about 10 mins to get a composite log to show anything for the crank and cam signals to no avail. I swapped in a spare CAS and was able to finally get a composite log. I guess I had a bad CAS, but my car still does not start and the tachometer and MS do not read any rpm signal, and inside tunerstudio the car is registering as not cranking. I have a screenshot of the log, along with a normal datalog attached.

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Old 05-16-2019, 01:13 AM
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It might be a photo perspective thing, but can you double check the wires between your patch and igniter output? It should be:

OEM Igniter Side -- LS Coil Harness Side
----
2 – Brown/Yellow -- Brown
3 – Blue -- Red
-----
6 – Black -- Brown
7 – Brown -- Green/Yellow
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:35 PM
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I might be dyslexic, as I did have a few wires out of place. After fixing that I now get an rpm signal, and the MS shows the car is cranking. However, the car still does not start, it just cranks over and over at about 300 rpm. I made sure to change back to 4G63 timing mode and spun the CAS each way, while taking a couple datalogs which are attached.
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File Type: msl
2019-05-16_13.12.04.msl (1.20 MB, 6 views)
File Type: msl
2019-05-16_13.16.04.msl (294.3 KB, 5 views)
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2019-05-16_13.20.53.msl (126.1 KB, 4 views)
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:39 PM
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YMMV, but aside from the dwell curve and such that Nigel instructs you to change, I had to change some spark related settings as well to get my car to start.

I believe I had to reduce cranking spark? I was getting starter kickback though. I was previously on Toyota coils.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cpierr03 View Post
YMMV, but aside from the dwell curve and such that Nigel instructs you to change, I had to change some spark related settings as well to get my car to start.

I believe I had to reduce cranking spark? I was getting starter kickback though. I was previously on Toyota coils.
I found the MS2 has an option for cranking advance, I tried retarding the timing to 6 degrees from my 10, but still no luck.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:44 PM
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After some more research, I am in pretty much the same situation as found here https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...circuit-88951/. I'm going to try bypassing my factory wiring completely, and use the MS options plug for the coil triggers. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of wire short somewhere in my factory harness. I haven't melted an LS coilpack, but 2 of them seem like they have a deeper cavity on the heat sink side, leading me to think that wasted spark circuit is bad.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:14 PM
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It's been a while since I updated this thread, and my car still doesn't start. I ran temporary wires from the trigger wire on each coilpack (center wire on connector) to the options plug on my MS2, then configured the MS2 to run in sequential mode, and had no luck. Next, I removed the ignition switch from the car and inspected the wiring around the switch, and found no signs of shorting. I also took apart my ignition switch and religiously cleaned the small amount of corrosion on it but have had no luck. Does anyone have any other suggestions short of rewiring the car?
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:35 PM
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Might be excessive but this is what I did when I couldn't get my car to start.

I basically had a custom ignition wiring rigged.

4 signal wires from each coil to the ecu, one to each ignition input.
Coil Power wire goes to a relay (the relay wiring is in the bullet points below)
  • 1 wire to fuse box for relay main power
  • 1 wire branched out to feed the 4 coils power
  • 1 wire to ground
  • 1 wire to the ignition for power on activating the relay
The 2 remaining wires on each coil goes to their respective head ground/ecu ground.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by skylinecalvin View Post
Might be excessive but this is what I did when I couldn't get my car to start.

I basically had a custom ignition wiring rigged.

4 signal wires from each coil to the ecu, one to each ignition input.
Coil Power wire goes to a relay (the relay wiring is in the bullet points below)
  • 1 wire to fuse box for relay main power
  • 1 wire branched out to feed the 4 coils power
  • 1 wire to ground
  • 1 wire to the ignition for power on activating the relay
The 2 remaining wires on each coil goes to their respective head ground/ecu ground.
I was tempted to make a new circuit for the coils, but I decided to order a used 1.6 coilpack from eBay and scheduled an appointment with a local shop.

However, here's the kicker, I re-pinned the igniter, reconnected the tachometer wire, and removed all of the LS coil conversion stuff. Then, to my surprise the car fired on the first crank with the used coilpack and the car ran fine for about a half hour, and no signs of melting on the new-to-me coilpack. I'm glad my car runs again and I didn't bring it to the shop, but my expensive LS coils do not work at all.
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