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Old 02-04-2014, 12:13 AM   #41
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Bringing this back from the dead. I am going to install this on my 1.6 engine, using the 2000 miata crank sensor. Does the 1.6 oil pump have the hole for the sensor bolt there?
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:37 AM   #42
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Good question... it may be there but its probably not tapped.

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Old 02-04-2014, 12:50 AM   #43
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Ah you just reminded me, I've got an aftermarket pump for 1.6 laying around:




It looks like you are right about it being untapped. M6 is the correct size I'm guessing? I hope that hole is there on my OEM pump to make things easy.
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:30 AM   #44
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Has anyone tried this, I did and now my car does not run good. I'm not sure what went wrong during the change. My old tune didn't work after replacing the wheel. Im running MS2
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:46 AM   #45
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Yes. Works great.
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Old 09-24-2014, 03:16 AM   #46
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I pulled this from an old email, maybe it will help.

CAS is a cam angle sensor that's mounted on the exhaust camshaft at the back of the head on 90-97 miatas. The exhaust camshaft has 2 notches on it where the CAS fits. Inside, are 2 trigger wheels, one with 2 teeth and one with 4. The 4 teeth is the crank signal and the 2 teeth is the cam signal (one tooth is bigger than the other).

By simply cutting off some teeth inside the CAS you can turn it into a "1 signal per cam revolution" that Megasquirt needs.

None of this is relevant to you. For NBs the crank and camshaft signals are already separated. The cam signal I believe is 2-1 pulse. That is, on the camshaft wheel there are 2 "nubs" on one side and 1 nub on the other. So it goes

_||_________|_________||_________|_________||_____ ____|_________||

If you grind off the 2 nubs you will also end up with the "1 signal per cam revolution", e.g.

____________|____________________|________________ ____|___________

Now for Megasquirt settings. First, I would recommend getting the car to run with JUST the trigger wheel and add the camshaft sensor later. You only need the camshaft sensor to run full sequential. So you will *have* to run wasted spark/batch fuel to begin with. If you already wired for sequential, megasquirt 3 can still handle it - just use "Wasted COP" mode.

For ignition settings
- choose "trigger wheel"
- "Single wheel with missing teeth"
- 36 teeth, 1 missing
- the missing tooth offset, I think, is 90*

Once its running confirm the timing with a timing light and confirm you have the rising edge/falling edge correct. If the timing is not right adjust your missing tooth offset a bit.

After its running in batch mode, to utilize the camshaft sensor, simply enable "Use CAM signal" option. Then you can switch to sequential.

good luck,
-JB
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:56 PM   #47
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Thanks a lot guys. I will try and see
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:40 PM   #48
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I talked to DIY a week or two back, they said that the 36-1 + VVT support had been pretty much abandoned due to a lack of perceived gains with doing so.

While I'll be the first to admit that 36 teeth might be more than is needed.... has anyone looked at their jitter with the different wheels?
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Old 09-27-2014, 09:12 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
While I'll be the first to admit that 36 teeth might be more than is needed.... has anyone looked at their jitter with the different wheels?
Spark jitter on the NA CAS was pretty bad at high RPM, but from what I've seen it's pretty minor on the NB.

The only real justification I've ever heard for 36t over 4t was from Jason C hypothesizing that a high tooth count wheel will exhibit slightly less predictive error during moments of extremely high transient ∆-RPM.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:48 PM   #50
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Interestingly the worst case for timing error when you have few tooth is at low RPM. You can think of it as because the sampling rate is low at low RPM. On my AEM FWIW which only effectively times off of 2 teeth with the factory trigger wheel, the error was on the order or 5* when blipping the throttle off idle. When I had 6 effective teeth, it was ~2*. With a 12+1, it was unreadable. Idle got noticeably smoother going from the factory to the 6 or 12 tooth wheel.

The worst case at high RPM I think is when you do a hard upshift and the clutch drops RPM very quickly. The rapid crank deceleration would cause the timing to be over advanced with few teeth.

I would think going from a 12+1 to a 36 tooth wheel would be very return-diminishy.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:51 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
I talked to DIY a week or two back, they said that the 36-1 + VVT support had been pretty much abandoned due to a lack of perceived gains with doing so.
How about for the 36-2?
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Old 09-27-2014, 04:02 PM   #52
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There is no difference between the stock 4T and the FM 36-2 with an MS2/MS3.

The spark angle is rock-solid (with a timing light) at idle and when bliping the throttle, up to 5K RPM.
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Old 09-27-2014, 04:07 PM   #53
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Did you try the test even at say, a fixed 15* advance? I've found that it's significantly worse when the requested spark event occurs just before a tooth (which is at 10* BTDC for the factory trigger wheel).
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:41 AM   #54
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Im thinking about going back to 4T. I either don't know what im doing or MS2 is not liking 36-1. Does anyone live in the dallas area that can help? I will drive to you
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:51 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
There is no difference between the stock 4T and the FM 36-2 with an MS2/MS3.

The spark angle is rock-solid (with a timing light) at idle and when bliping the throttle, up to 5K RPM.
Yeah - that's interesting. I've always had a gut feeling that 12 tooth is the way to go - more than that and you're spending all your time worrying about predictable things anyway. Mine's been reasonable at OEM 4 tooth, but I haven't really beat it up. The CAS was dismal which I blamed on the belt.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:12 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
How about for the 36-2?
FM 36-2 with NB cam trigger is supported. 949 Racing 36-1 with NB cam trigger will be supported in the future (when Emilio sends me data captures).

I have a FM wheel on my car. I am unable to perceive a difference in spark timing as compared to the original 4t wheel, nor am I able to perceive improvement in dyno results. I do believe that there is gained resolution with the valve timing with the extra crank teeth however, as I noticed much error in VVT Target vs actual after the install, and had to retune the PID. The Miata's VVT cam trigger is pretty low resolution.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:16 AM   #57
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Why not a 12+1 with VVT? I have posted the timing diagram before.

Re: 4-tooth accuracy. Have you tried blipping the throttle off of idle with the timing set to 15* BTDC?
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:28 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Why not a 12+1 with VVT? I have posted the timing diagram before.

Re: 4-tooth accuracy. Have you tried blipping the throttle off of idle with the timing set to 15* BTDC?
There are only so many wheel patterns that it makes sense to support. We already support 2 other patterns with a 3rd coming. Why do we need 4 different Miata wheel decoders? My human eye can not detect a difference between stock and 36-2 crank triggers under any condition.
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Why do we need 4 different Miata wheel decoders?
Only because TSE sell a 12+1. I was under the impression it was popular.

Quote:
My human eye can not detect a difference between stock and 36-2 crank triggers under any condition.
Was this blipping the throttle off idle? Was it with the timing set to 15* BTDC so that the requested spark even is *just before* a tooth arrives?
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:37 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Only because TSE sell a 12+1. I was under the impression it was popular.
I believe its the cat's pajamas with the AEM.
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