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I am making final preparations to attempt to start for the first time a new engine build, and would like a sanity check on my tune. I have a tune from a previous iteration of this engine (before I found glitter in the oil), with some minor adjustments made for the new internals. The tune was created by a well regarded local tuner on a dyno, so I'm mainly I'm trying to determine how much timing to pull to make sure I don't create any problems before I can get this thing back on a dyno in the Spring. For now I have pulled 2 degrees across the board.
Car now has 84mm 11:1 supertechs with some Maruha 264 degree 10mm cams, the tune was created on a stock junkyard VVT 1.8 that apparently was on its last legs.
Additionally this engine has AE101 ITB, 36-2 trigger wheel, and MS3PNP Pro.
Any and all help is appreciated. Current tune is attached. Picture of motor is attached. Thank you.
My ignition table for NA BP Rebuild with 85mm bore, 12:1 Wössner pistons/rings, stock crank and connecting rods, Catcams 3700619 with 10mm lift. Tuned for 98+ EU Octane (93 US?).
Thanks for the table, I'll review that tonight. For now I think my problem is mostly that my TPS appears to be bad. When opening the throttle by hand, opening 5-10% is read by tunerstudio as 50%, which is making it impossible to tune. Currently waiting for a new toyota sensor to come in. Otherwise the car is running and has a happy idle at ~700 RPM, but any throttle input results in erratic behavior, and steady state the sensor has around +/-4% noise.
Very interesting developments. I suspected my TPS to be bad, so I ordered in a new one and now I'm even more confused than when I started. When I sweep the throttle with the key off I can clearly follow the output of the throttle sensor, which changes from ~3.3K ohms to ~1.3K ohms, but with the key on the voltage output of the sensor is unsteady.
Ground is good, TPS to ECU is good. It's definitely something up with the sensors I was using. The goal here was to break in the motor, so I actually swapped the ITBs out for my VICs manifold and am running the car like that. The miata TPS works without any issue. I will have to hunt around to see what other people are using for AE101 ITBs, or maybe buy a genuine Toyota unit instead of the aftermarket one I had.
I am however having an issue that everything is so lightweight that the car will immediately die when putting in the clutch rolling up to a stop sign. A learn to tune issue I know, but I am struggling to get that fixed. Supermiata aluminum flywheel and 4 puck clutch with a balanced motor the revs drop so fast the idle control seems like it isn't taking control fast enough. The car will idle fine under specific conditions, and actually will idle better on cold start than when fully up to temp.
Now that I think of it, it seems the minimum delay for entering the idle PID loop is 1 second, but the car will definitely die in under 1 second. Is there a way to make idle control take command faster?
Something was definitely wrong with your TPS in that log. At idle and when the car was off it had over 800 ADC which is usually what a TPS reads at WOT. Any chance you had a bad connection somewhere?
Can you post your latest tune? The one you have in your first post doesn't have an idle valve setup, and by your last post, it seems you may have one now? Post a log and MSQ that match each other for how the car is now and we will be able to give you some help.
For starters, your TPS breakpoints should be higher resolution at the lower openings, and lower resolution at the higher end. Your ignition table seems to aggressive for high compression and pump gas. Try Stoffls table, but note his table is Speed Density. As far as idle, hard to say without a current tune and log, but try leaving the valve open while driving (Set Close Delay to 0).
There are 2 different tps’s for the ae101’s. The silvertop and blacktop are opposite resistance they put out. I can’t remember witch is witch but I had to purchase a different tps on a itb setup I ran for awhile.
battle garage was a good source for them back when I needed Toyota itb parts
Tune and log attached. Log is me driving up a small hill and slowing for one stop sign, then parking. Includes some idle. Looking at the log I drop 1300RPM in 0.6s in some places. I will try running with the idle valve open to see how that helps.
I am using silvertop ITBs. Very possible I damaged the first sensor and bought the wrong replacement, considering how the car is very happy with the miata TPS. Still, I'll have the same idle issue when that gets fixed so I appreciate the helpful advice.
No problem. I just got around to taking a look at your tune and log. If your AFR is reading accurately, your car is running lean at idle, and 29 degrees of advance at idle is also too high. I think the return to idle issue might have been related to your shift settings. The valve was set to close above 1300RPMs which is only 200RPMs above your target. If you set the delay back to 2 seconds, and set this RPM setting to 1600, I think it would work as you expect, as long as it has enough fuel. At any rate, leaving the valve open all the time is fine too. I have a good bit of experience tuning ITBs, send me a PM if you need help setting up a base map.
EGO is not enabled, that'll really help with idle, it'll also show you where in your map you need more/less fuel. For instance, if you set authority to 10% globally and you're constantly idling at 110%, your idle cells are at LEAST 10% lean. Make sure it's idling around 98-99%, and once idling, make sure your initial value table for that CLT/rpm is the same or a few percent higher than what CL idle settles at. Your ignition table is a little advanced everywhere, but specifically, you should be under 24* below 1500, mid 30s should only be for cruising cells (less than 60ish kPa), you should only taper down as kPa goes up, and end around 28* at redline/100kPa.
To be clear, your tune may not blow the motor up, but it's clear there's some work to do.
To be clear, your tune may not blow the motor up, but it's clear there's some work to do.
Understood, which is why I appreciate everyone's support. I had not thought about EGO control, so thanks for the suggestion. My timing tables were adjusted to copy redursidae's table shortly after I posted the last tune file, so I apologize for not remembering to update. Unfortunately I don't have any good logs saved from when everything was working well, because I was busy driving around letting VEAL do its thing. Unfortunately the season is now officially over here (it was -2F windchill, 10F absolute on Friday), so any testing will need to wait until about May when things warm up a bit and the salt is washed away.
My intent here was to get the new motor broken in before winter fully began, so I wasn't too concerned with getting hung up making things perfect. In fact the motor will be going in the red NA to the right of my first picture, but I dropped it in the NB on the left because that one was already working, the red car is in need of a complete wiring overhaul. However now I will be working this winter to make everything right, so I appreciate everyone's helpful suggestions.
And redursidae, I may take you up on that offer for some help when it comes time for the ITBs. As of right now my issues are mainly just a general lack of tuning knowledge and experience, and not specifically anything to do with an intake, but that time will come soon.
That last tune looks better to me, but your EGO correction is still disabled. Definitely heed Curly's advice. I think your AFR table is slightly lean around the middle though, 50-80kPa. I would target closer to 13.5 around 80kPa.
11-11-2023, 09:50 AM
Sanity Check on New Build
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