$10 says the OP is running unreferenced and trying to make 350whp with ~40psi of differential fuel pressure.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1138290)
Wrong, sorry. Soviet is making 460whp on 1000s. 500whp on 1300s should be a piece of cake. You just need proper base pressure.
OP, does your FPR have a boost reference? Are you using an NB fuel system or something? Something is wrong with your fuel system - there's no way you are maxing ID1000s at only 20psi. I ran them at 350whp at <70%DC with a proper fuel system. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1138290)
Wrong, sorry. Soviet is making 460whp on 1000s. 500whp on 1300s should be a piece of cake. You just need proper base pressure.
OP, does your FPR have a boost reference? Are you using an NB fuel system or something? Something is wrong with your fuel system - there's no way you are maxing ID1000s at only 20psi. I ran them at 350whp at <70%DC with a proper fuel system. Injector Dynamics website has data that said at 107psi the 1000cc injectors can flow a max of 1300cc. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1138292)
$10 says the OP is running unreferenced and trying to make 350whp with ~40psi of differential fuel pressure.
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wait, how is 80% duty maxing out the injectors?
pretty sure its 97% duty for full-sequential @ 8000 rpm. |
Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 1138295)
While it's cute of you to call me out, the fuel pressure required to get there on 1300's is higher than I'm comfortable with. Differential pressure of 60psi at 25psi boost is 85psi rail pressure. No thanks.
No call-out intended, just correcting something that's obviously incorrect. Don't get your panties in a wad. :party: |
Sheeeeeeit. I run 80psi of rail pressure through some old EV1 Supra 440s, been doing it for 2-3 years. Not a single fuck was given.
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Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 1138298)
wait, how is 80% duty maxing out the injectors?
pretty sure its 97% duty for full-sequential @ 8000 rpm. As from my research and from working as a auto Mechanic for 15yrs you never want to see a injector running to full duty cycle. So technically 80% might be maxed out for safe reasons. My injectors are running 100% duty durring data log. Boost referanced at base pressure of 60psi. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1138302)
Sheeeeeeit. I run 80psi of rail pressure through some old EV1 Supra 440s, been doing it for 2-3 years. Not a single fuck was given.
Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 1138297)
Or doesn't have enough fuel pump and fuel pump wiring.
e: Flex fuel sensor should be fine, it's in the return line as-delivered from FM. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1138304)
RC told me the max allowed pressure on my RC750s was 65psi. I lol'd and put them up for sale that afternoon. :party:
I would have taken that to mean "at the nozzle" and immediately set out to see what happened at 65psi base. I plan on running the RCs i'm chucking in this time around to 80-90psi rail pressure at TEXAS% duty cycle. What's the worst that can happen? |
I guess it has gotten a little off topic as I am just wondering if 1300 cc injectors wil be enough with some head room or if I just need the 2000cc. Ben I do believe answered this with the 2 stage set up question. Just wanting to verifiy on that at 500+ hp 2000cc are required unless running 2 sets of injectors. i would tend to lean towards the 2000cc as long as people have not seen idling or low rpm no load problems with this large of a injector. The intercooler im still wondering if i need even larger then the 600 or 550 for again safe margin for track use for intake temps. Im leaning away fromt he precision do to the high pressure drop.
Again thank you all for any help given. |
Originally Posted by 92mazdaspeed
(Post 1138303)
So technically 80% might be maxed out for safe reasons.
As long as you can get the injector fully closed before the ECU commands the next pulse, you're good to go. ID actually issues a chart that does the math for you. http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/022...Duty.png?32193 |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1138300)
ID says their injectors atomize ideally at ~90psi. Max allowed pressure is downright silly, something like 120-130psi IIRC. Anything lower than 90psi and you aren't getting the full benefit of their spray pattern. I had the same reservations when I built my E85 turbo car 5 years ago, and a quick phone call to ID put them to bed. I ran ~85psi of rail pressure on that car for over a year with no issues (70psi+reference).
No call-out intended, just correcting something that's obviously incorrect. Don't get your panties in a wad. :party: Im just worried that 1300 will not be enough and I dont want to buy 2 more sets of injectors. |
Originally Posted by 92mazdaspeed
(Post 1138328)
However, based on them being maxed at 100% duty already at 18-19psi. im not sure this is going to solve the issue of not enough injector. I will be running more pressure with whatever new in jectors I get.
Originally Posted by 92mazdaspeed
(Post 1138328)
Im just worried that 1300 will not be enough and I dont want to buy 2 more sets of injectors.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1138300)
ID says their injectors atomize ideally at ~90psi. Max allowed pressure is downright silly, something like 120-130psi IIRC. Anything lower than 90psi and you aren't getting the full benefit of their spray pattern. I had the same reservations when I built my E85 turbo car 5 years ago, and a quick phone call to ID put them to bed. I ran ~85psi of rail pressure on that car for over a year with no issues (70psi+reference).
No call-out intended, just correcting something that's obviously incorrect. Don't get your panties in a wad. :party: The injectors are maxed out when increasing values in the VE table does not affect air/fuel ratio. With older style injectors, that tends to occur around 80%. Newer EV14 injectors can be run to 85%, possibly higher. For the record, I have a set of ID1300s en route to play with. |
Originally Posted by 92mazdaspeed
(Post 1138328)
If it is true that they want to see 90psi i have no problem bumping my base fuel pressure. However, based on them being maxed at 100% duty already at 18-19psi. im not sure this is going to solve the issue of not enough injector. I will be running more pressure with whatever new in jectors I get.
Im just worried that 1300 will not be enough and I dont want to buy 2 more sets of injectors. |
Currently the stock 5speed. Have not decided on 6speed as they are not reliable at my level. Quafe 5 speed sets I guess break at this hp level as well. Kind of waiting for someone to do the leg work to figure out a t56 or t5 swap. Its got a 3.9 torsen from a 01.
Hmmmm...Maybe I'm retarded, but I grenaded my five speed on much MUCH less power.... How in the hell are you running what sounds like 400whp through a 5 speed and a 3.9? |
Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 1138329)
You don't understand how injectors work. More fuel pressure results in more flow. You are maxing out the injectors because in the duration of 4 strokes the injector can only inject that much fuel. If you raise the pressure, it can inject more fuel. The difference between 60 and 70 psi is 7% extra flow.
I'll buy them from you at a discount :) i know fuel pressure directly relates to flow of an injector. im worried that with what i would concider to be a safe level of margin for fuel pressure which I guess is 90psi according to savington is what ID's want. im ok with that. As far as duty cycle yes they are ok at 97% at 8000 rpm according to the chart but that is it. im not ok with that. i want to see some slack. again. I dont want to buy 2 sets of injectors if i decide to madify something else. IE custom intake or larger turbo. buying 2 sets of $950 injecdtors is not on my list of enjoyable spending. The 1000s will be up for sale. |
I don't think you're understanding. Nobody is saying that for whatever reason you AREN'T seeing 100% duty cycle, we're just trying to figure out WHY.
How much power are you making? |
Originally Posted by 92mazdaspeed
(Post 1138341)
Please dont take this the wrong way. I do know how injectors work as I my job is to diagnose drivabilty problems every day at work. im a advance level diagnostic automotive technician and have been doing it for 15yr. I currently own my own shop and all i do are the hard diagnosic jobs that dont pay to keep the rest of my employees at 120% effiancy.
i know fuel pressure directly relates to flow of an injector. im worried that with what i would concider to be a safe level of margin for fuel pressure which I guess is 90psi according to savington is what ID's want. im ok with that. As far as duty cycle yes they are ok at 97% at 8000 rpm according to the chart but that is it. im not ok with that. i want to see some slack. again. I dont want to buy 2 sets of injectors if i decide to madify something else. IE custom intake or larger turbo. buying 2 sets of $950 injecdtors is not on my list of enjoyable spending. The 1000s will be up for sale. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it appears you are completely full of shit. Many on here are certified techs, also many others are business owners. (I happen to be both). You're grammatical errors, along with some other statements made make me think you are not as qualified as you say. Best of luck becoming the first 600 whp miata that uses a stock 5 speed. P.s... The leg work has already been done as to retrofitting stronger transmissions..Maybe you should look into them more. P.s.s. Before the obligatory excuse about being on your phone..this entire response was sent from one. |
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