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Old 09-21-2011, 01:18 PM   #1
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Default 400whp motor build plan? tweak it please

I'm starting to collect parts for my motor build, I plan to collect parts and build it over about the next 6 months.

My goal is 400whp, but i want to do it without water/meth injection or any of that type of extra.

so I'm asking you all to look over my current build plan and make suggestions, I'm looking for info from people with real experiance(Sav,Hustler,18psi,etc) with motors making this much power reliably. this motor is for a car that will be daily driven at least part of its life.

here's my plan so far
bottom end;
94 block (have now)
94 crank (have now)
eagle rods (picking up saturday)
arp main studs (picking up saturday)
arp head studs (picking up saturday)
wiseco pistons from fm
acl bearings
BE oil pump
ATI dampener

also plan to have the rotating assembly fully balanced.

top end;
99 head(have now)
fully rebuilt
stock size iconel exhaust valves (or 1mm upsize ?)
port job, unshrouded valves and match chamber volume)
super tech dual valve springs
stock cams with exintake mod(have now)
modified stock intake mani or aftermarket(not sure if its worth it?)

turbo set up;
absurdflow v band
gt2871 (might need the g3071 for 400hp?)
custom intercooler and piping
tial wastegate and bov

electronics;
MS2 with ebc (have now)
800cc or 1000cc injectors ?
walboro 255 (already have) will it be enough?

I plan to wire up a 3 way switch to control boost with.
1, low boost tune ebc disconected 7-8psi
2, low boost tune ebc connected 15~psi
3, high boost tune ebc whatever psi to get 400ish

pick it apart tell me what to tweak or change.

Last edited by 92Miata; 09-21-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:42 PM   #2
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you won't get there with a GT2871R and pump gas- I have this turbo on my motor and made 299whp, with the limiting factor being the pump gas
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse View Post
you won't get there with a GT2871R and pump gas- I have this turbo on my motor and made 299whp, with the limiting factor being the pump gas
had a feeling that would be the case, how much boost did it take for that power? I'm against race gas for the track.

i would like to hear from savington on his set up since he is making 350.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:18 PM   #4
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Go GT35.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:26 PM   #5
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you won't get there with a GT2871R and pump gas- I have this turbo on my motor and made 299whp, with the limiting factor being the pump gas
What size 2871 and what manifold and downpipe you using? I am pretty sure I will be able to hit 400hp with mine on pump gas around 22-24psi.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:11 PM   #6
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I'm at 18.2 psi. Turbo is .60in, .63 ex. ETD shorty tubular manifold, tial 44m WG, 2.5" DP, 3" all the way back from there. Motor has had a lot of work too.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:53 PM   #7
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So GT35 with .63 ar Tial housing would be better for my power goals, or is GT35X with the antisurg worth the extra cost ?

Also will the MVS 38mm wastegate be enough or will I need the extra flow of the MVR 44mm ?
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse View Post
I'm at 18.2 psi. Turbo is .60in, .63 ex. ETD shorty tubular manifold, tial 44m WG, 2.5" DP, 3" all the way back from there. Motor has had a lot of work too.
It is you .64 ex that is killing you. The .86 allows you to run a good bit more spark timing up top. There are a total of 8 different 2871, and I think any with a .64 ex A/R is going to limit you.

I should hopefully get back on a dyno in a month and be able to turn up the boost. I am hoping with 15psi I get 300hp and 18-21psi I get about 350hp. We will see.
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
So GT35 with .63 ar Tial housing would be better for my power goals, or is GT35X with the antisurg worth the extra cost ?

Also will the MVS 38mm wastegate be enough or will I need the extra flow of the MVR 44mm ?
Absolutely no reason to not go with a Borg Warner EFR if you're investing this much money.

Actually, it should be cheaper since you'll have a BOV and wastegate built into the EFR. Oh, and boost control built in as well.

It's not just the features, but the performance of the EFR trumps Garrett, Turbonetics, Precision, etc...It's not even close at this point. Even the GTX is getting creamed and it's MORE expensive to buy a GTX, turbine housing(gtx does not come as a complete turbo), bov, external wastegate..etc...
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Go GT35.
This is terrible advice. Why would you suggest a 600whp turbo for a 400whp goal?

With a good intake manifold and a T3-flanged 3071R (not the baby T25 turbine wheel, the real 60mm T3 wheel), you may get there on pump gas with a good intake manifold. I would start with a .63a/r, but you may need to try the .82a/r to keep the TIP low enough to avoid detonation on pump gas. Expect to run 21-23psi with that turbo to hit 400whp. You are going to want a VVT head to help with spool and low-end torque.

Or, look into the EFR7064 from Borg Warner. There aren't a lot of real-world results out there yet, but on paper you should have very little trouble hitting 400whp with that turbo.

Mighty Mouse, how big is the turbine wheel on your 2871R? Is it an ATP housing? Garrett never made a 2871 with a .63a/r turbine housing, and the T3 exhaust wheel is much larger.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:27 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Or, look into the EFR7064 from Borg Warner. There aren't a lot of real-world results out there yet, but on paper you should have very little trouble hitting 400whp with that turbo.
That's not a good suggestion, the 7064 is way too big for a 400whp goal. Hell, even the smallest B1 frame EFR is good for 400whp.

OP, I'd look into a 6258 if I was in your shoes(or a 6758 is you ever want 500whp). Save money on parts and get a superior performing turbo.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
What size 2871 and what manifold and downpipe you using? I am pretty sure I will be able to hit 400hp with mine on pump gas around 22-24psi.
Also Mighty, what kind of gas? I hit 400 on 93oct

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
So GT35 with .63 ar Tial housing would be better for my power goals, or is GT35X with the antisurg worth the extra cost ?

I'll be contrarian and say go with a standard GT35R ball bearing. There pop up regularly on ebay for around $4-$500. GT35X is not worth the extra money. If you want to spend $2000, then get the EFR Twin Scroll 7670.

Also will the MVS 38mm wastegate be enough or will I need the extra flow of the MVR 44mm ?
MVR will not hurt you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
This is terrible advice. Why would you suggest a 600whp turbo for a 400whp goal?

Or, look into the EFR7064 from Borg Warner. There aren't a lot of real-world results out there yet, but on paper you should have very little trouble hitting 400whp with that turbo.
I recommend the bigger turbo because enough is never enough and with the GT35R spool/low end power won't hurt that horribly vs gt30 but he can hit 500hp at the same 23/25psi boost level.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata
;773983
here's my plan so far
bottom end;
94 block (have now)
94 crank (have now)
eagle rods (picking up saturday)
arp main studs (picking up saturday)
arp head studs (picking up saturday)
wiseco pistons from fm
acl bearings
BE oil pump
ATI dampener

also plan to have the rotating assembly fully balanced.

top end;
99 head(have now)
fully rebuilt
stock size iconel exhaust valves (or 1mm upsize ?)
port job, unshrouded valves and match chamber volume)
super tech dual valve springs
stock cams with exintake mod(have now)
modified stock intake mani or aftermarket(not sure if its worth it?)

electronics;
MS2 with ebc (have now)
800cc or 1000cc injectors ?
walboro 255 (already have) will it be enough?

I plan to wire up a 3 way switch to control boost with.
1, low boost tune ebc disconected 7-8psi
2, low boost tune ebc connected 15~psi
3, high boost tune ebc whatever psi to get 400ish

pick it apart tell me what to tweak or change.
I don't think the walboro 255 will be enough. It wasn't enough for me. Yes you want 1000CC injectors. If you're going to drive around on the street a lot, I would recommend a VVT head. If you have $800 to spare, I recommend cams. Cams + valve springs = power to 9000RPM. I recommend sticking with the stock intake manifold and upgrading only if you need to. My 99 manifold is totally gutted and holds power to 8000RPM. Sav's blox manifold conversion is a cheap proven option too.

Last thing. I will tell you that I am now having to redo my turbo setup for the third time because I underanticipated how much power I wanted. Plan to go BIG and it will only cost you a little more money up front vs. having to repurchase everything repeatedly. I will also point out that 400hp is slower than a lot of factory cars nowadays... Do you want to lose to something with a window sticker on it?
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:50 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
That's not a good suggestion, the 7064 is way too big for a 400whp goal. Hell, even the smallest B1 frame EFR is good for 400whp.

OP, I'd look into a 6258 if I was in your shoes(or a 6758 is you ever want 500whp). Save money on parts and get a superior performing turbo.
Dude 7064 is not big enough. He would have to run mad psi to make 500hp on a 6758. Fail
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
I will also point out that 400hp is slower than a lot of factory cars nowadays... Do you want to lose to something with a window sticker on it?
LOL
So now a 400whp miata is slow?

Yeah
Those damn pesky Veyrons, Venoms, and Zondas

But seriously, OP answer this honestly: have you ridden in/driven a 400whp turbo miata? I dont know about these crazy clowns, but its pretty damn fast. Like **** on a z06/viper fast. I'm just sayin.

That said, I'd also go with either an efr or one of the new gtx30 garretts, and an MS3 running full sequential fuel/spark, COP's, and at the very least ID1000's+solid fuel system. Gotpsi? or retro-Blox IM, and some good cams. The rest you pretty much have figured out
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:11 PM   #16
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i just checked out the bg efr 6758 and i like it since it will leave some headway, are iconol(sp?) studs the answer to bolt problems ?

also its a t2 .64ar ex is that a limiter ? bg says its good to 490
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
LOL
So now a 400whp miata is slow?

Yeah
Those damn pesky Veyrons, Venoms, and Zondas

But seriously, OP answer this honestly: have you ridden in/driven a 400whp turbo miata? I dont know about these crazy clowns, but its pretty damn fast. Like **** on a z06/viper fast. I'm just sayin.
You haven't driven in one either And no it's not **** on z06 fast it is walk slowly stock z06 fast


Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
i just checked out the bg efr 6758 and i like it since it will leave some headway, are iconol(sp?) studs the answer to bolt problems ?

also its a t2 .64ar ex is that a limiter ? bg says its good to 490
Enjoy failing. Go for T4 and a bigger turbo.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
i just checked out the bg efr 6758 and i like it since it will leave some headway, are iconol(sp?) studs the answer to bolt problems ?

also its a t2 .64ar ex is that a limiter ? bg says its good to 490
You want t3 and you want .86 or whatever the larger one is.
also iirc those are crank hp figure estimates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
You haven't driven in one either And no it's not **** on z06 fast it is walk slowly stock z06 fast
Enjoy failing. Go for T4 and a bigger turbo.
yes I have fa660t. friend has a 500whp miata. Its ungodly fast IMO and I dont like riding in it. every time I was in it I was paranoyd.
From what I understand OP doesn't want to be wrenching on his car constantly to make 2,000,000hp to compensate for his small pee pee, therefore there's no need to go with a turbo that wont spool til 6k
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post

yes I have fa660t. friend has a 500whp miata. Its ungodly fast IMO and I dont like riding in it. every time I was in it I was paranoyd.
From what I understand OP doesn't want to be wrenching on his car constantly to make 2,000,000hp to compensate for his small pee pee, therefore there's no need to go with a turbo that wont spool til 6k
You are getting old.

Details on your friend's car?
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Dude 7064 is not big enough. He would have to run mad psi to make 500hp on a 6758. Fail
Thanks for making it obvious you don't intend on doing research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
i just checked out the bg efr 6758 and i like it since it will leave some headway, are iconol(sp?) studs the answer to bolt problems ?

also its a t2 .64ar ex is that a limiter ? bg says its good to 490
Inconel studs are the best solution for stud problems. I strongly recommend the kit from Track Speed Engineering.

No. The .64 is not a limiting factor. The Borg Warner turbos cannot be compared to the Garrett turbos, it's apples and oranges.

Here is a dyno of a T2 .64 6758; EDIT: This is by no means a dyno from a "optimized setup"
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400whp motor build plan? tweak it please-z254sae540.jpg  
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