Airflow, Cams, and 6500RPM drop on Dyno - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-02-2010, 08:04 PM   #21
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There is a lot to be had from a stock head to a ported head. And from a 95 head to a 99 head.

I do not have good data on an identical chassis and going from a stock induction, head, and cam to a ported head, bigger cam, and better induction. I did do some testing with a ported 95 head with stock valve train and then updating to a ported 99 head with 1mm over valves. The cam, and induction were identical. The only difference is I did have an electric water pump when I installed the 99 head.

I went a 13.89 (not sure on mph, I think 96) with the 95 head, and this was after months and months of tuning and testing. I went a 13.38 at 99 mph with the 99 head on the very first night. That is a substantial improvement from one head to another.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:35 PM   #22
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So this shows the advantage of VVT, Cams, intake?

I know that if all areas are addressed (porting, cams, intake) then the engine will make more power but which area offer the best bang for the buck? Would intake and porting offer 90% of the gains? Or just a camshaft?

for example the red line for my VVT with Hydra is electronicly limited to 7450. My factory camshafts and valvetrain was limited to 7200 but if power is dropping off at 6500 then I am not even using all the RPM my valvetrain will allow, with that being said would a intake solve it or could it be cam profile.

I hope that with enough info provided about a dyno sheet we would be able to tell that one mod may or may not be worth the expense.
this was my dyno of my motor blowing up. this was a 1.6L with a custom built IM. short 6" runners 3L plenum. 13psi iirc, super low torque output due to the condition of the motor, but the curve is interesting as hell.

viperormiata has the IM now, hoping to see a dyno from him one day.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:54 PM   #23
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Brain beat me to posing my own dyno chart. That was stock untouched engine and head with a custom intake manifold and obviously everything else in my sig. But the manifold made the biggest difference in the butt dyno department and as you can see made for a nice flat torque curve or as I like to call it plateau.I plan to rev it to 7500 next time. the operator was afraid of over revving it. We all know how off the tachs are in these things.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:01 PM   #24
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i dont know how many times i need to say it, everything needs to work as a package, there no one miracle solution. no one big gain. better flowing head wont do anything with out bigger cams, and a stock mani is just blocking your bad *** head. and a good mani wont do **** without a bigger tb. i mean every mod will add something but the gains are marginal. and integral makes like 10 diffrent cam profiles for miata 1.8l heads. and they will custom make cams. they can do anything for you.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #25
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Is the IM the only difference between Sav's two runs? And it's the old BEGI one? If so, I'm impressed
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:04 PM   #26
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i dont know how many times i need to say it, everything needs to work as a package, there no one miracle solution. no one big gain. better flowing head wont do anything with out bigger cams, and a stock mani is just blocking your bad *** head. and a good mani wont do **** without a bigger tb. i mean every mod will add something but the gains are marginal. and integral makes like 10 diffrent cam profiles for miata 1.8l heads. and they will custom make cams. they can do anything for you.
Last time I heard, Integral was no more. You will have to get cams elsewhere.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:09 PM   #27
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noooooo! im luck to have a badass set from them then
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:13 PM   #28
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Last time I heard, Integral was no more. You will have to get cams elsewhere.
Another company called Megacycle cams bought Steve from Integral's stock of blanks and designs and will make any cam that Integral made
the contact info is on Integral's original website. I talked to them and they seemed very nice and knowledgeable.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:54 PM   #29
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Another company called Megacycle cams bought Steve from Integral's stock of blanks and designs and will make any cam that Integral made
the contact info is on Integral's original website. I talked to them and they seemed very nice and knowledgeable.
Thank God.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:18 AM   #30
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That is a substantial improvement from one head to another.
I agree, my point was that headwork isn't cost effective unless you are really trying to stretch every last pony. IMs are cost effective, 99/01 heads are cost effective. Cams give up too much on the low end, headwork is too expensive.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:54 PM   #31
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i dont know how many times i need to say it, everything needs to work as a package, there no one miracle solution. no one big gain. better flowing head wont do anything with out bigger cams, and a stock mani is just blocking your bad *** head. and a good mani wont do **** without a bigger tb. i mean every mod will add something but the gains are marginal. and integral makes like 10 diffrent cam profiles for miata 1.8l heads. and they will custom make cams. they can do anything for you.
Are you speaking from personal experience while dyno testing combinations of parts on the BP engine or just general engine building tips found in literature? If not then we will have to use the dynos that several here have and use that information to compile data proving or disproving that statement.

From the dynos posted it looks like your statement isn't accurate.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:38 PM   #32
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before and after of an IM on Paul's 1.8L Absurdflow setup:



same boost: 14psi.
I find it very very hard to believe that the only change was the IM, to produce a gain in both the low end and the topend. It looks to me like maybe boost control was improved, or low RPM timing.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:54 PM   #33
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I find it very very hard to believe that the only change was the IM, to produce a gain in both the low end and the topend. It looks to me like maybe boost control was improved, or low RPM timing.
I'll tend to agree. When Paul was into his miatas he was also into tweaking the tune all the time. I am also sure he has datalogs of all his runs. I'll send him a text.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:00 AM   #34
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From the looks of that dyno chat the turbo is spooling a lot earlier...like 1,000 sooner.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:15 AM   #35
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I'll tend to agree. When Paul was into his miatas he was also into tweaking the tune all the time. I am also sure he has datalogs of all his runs. I'll send him a text.
Ok he says both were the same timing map, both at 14.5psi, both tuned as he drove down to delaware (setups finished the night before). 300 is the old begi cast intake, 70mm mustang throttlebody, and larger injectors. 270 is a stock '99 intake with the butterflys not operating (whatever position they are when you disconnect the solenoid is where they were). He's in bed so I didn't want him to fetch the datalogs to see what the boost curves were, but my recollection was they were similar. I was there when he made both numbers and remember comparing the datalogs when he did the 300 and was like...holy ****.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:54 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by DOHCPanther View Post
for example the red line for my VVT with Hydra is electronicly limited to 7450. My factory camshafts and valvetrain was limited to 7200 but if power is dropping off at 6500 then I am not even using all the RPM my valvetrain will allow, with that being said would a intake solve it or could it be cam profile.
I'm not sure if you know this or not- you can rescale the RPM and load grid in the hydra so you can have a map over 7450rpm. Also you can raise the rev limiter.

FWIW hopefully later today or tomorrow I'll post my ported VVT head, stock upper IM, no butterfly lower IM dyno cart. Let's see if I have the drop too.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:05 PM   #37
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CTDRFTNA is corect about puting to gether a set up corectly, the reason everyone is seeing suck big gains from an I'm is optimization, the math behind a forced induction mani and a natural one is compleatly different so putting any mani on that is better suted for FI will see gains all over, and you will see even more gains from a properly set up mani that is built for your application.
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