Car wont start! Help! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Car wont start! Help!

Old 04-10-2013, 01:51 AM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default Car wont start! Help!

Okay, so I've had a thread over on cr.net but there's really only one guy giving me advise, and I posted the thread over a month ago and the car still wont start. So here's some info about my situation, I hope you guys can steer me in the right direction. To start off, I did a wire tuck about a month and a half ago. Drove the car afterward no problem. 2 days later I went out there and the car wouldn't start. All plugs have strong spark, all plugs are dry upon removal after cranking. With diagnostic F/P and GND jumped the pump made noise. Without it jumped the pump made no noise at all in RUN or cranking. Either way the car doesn't start. Fuel Injector relay clicks when I turn the key. Fuel pump is getting 12+vdc. I removed a fuel line before the fuel filter; fuel came out. Removed a line after the fuel filter; fuel came out at the same rate approx. Followed the lines up to the front of the car and found them next to the intake manifold. Fuel did not flow out of these and if it did it was a small drip. Replaced the fuel pump. Fuel now flows out of the lines under the hood at a strong rate. During all this I have the fuel pump relay jumped because otherwise the fuel pump does not respond. I sprayed starting fluid in the intake mani and the car coughed a little and tried to start. I removed the fuel rail, with injectors still attached and no fuel came out of the injectors with the new pump. Obviously all 4 injectors didn't fail at the exact same time (or did they?) Maybe the Fuel Injector relay is clicking but not actually working? FPR went bad? Anybody have any other suggestions?
94LagunaR is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:21 AM
  #2  
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Bonita springs florida
Posts: 338
Total Cats: -107
Default

Possable you reversed the feed and return lines to the rail?
if not next i would suspect the fpr. try restricting the flow on the return line. (vice grips)
also check for a losse or disconected ground. As you just did a wire tuck there is a good chance you may have missed somthing.
Hahnlsquid is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 05:09 AM
  #3  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,462
Total Cats: 589
Default

The FPR rarely goes bad. I wouldn't concern yourself with it.

The fuel injectors need to be told to open, you're concentrating on the fuel pump, it could be something electrical. When you take the oil cap off, can you see the exhaust cam spinning with the starter?
curly is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:23 AM
  #4  
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
Posts: 4,646
Total Cats: 346
Default

You're better off asking here, as i have no idea what i'm talking about. haha

That was the last thing i said in your thread on CR though. Something isn't telling the injectos to fire, once we found out we has fuel at the rail.
This has been a crazy nightmare though. You had symptoms of other failures, but when checked it wasn't it.
Erat is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:38 AM
  #5  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default

Originally Posted by Hahnlsquid View Post
Possable you reversed the feed and return lines to the rail?
if not next i would suspect the fpr. try restricting the flow on the return line. (vice grips)
also check for a losse or disconected ground. As you just did a wire tuck there is a good chance you may have missed somthing.
I only took off one line at a time, so there is no way I got them mixed up. And you have no idea how many times over the last month ive checked for loose/disconnected grounds.
Originally Posted by curly View Post
The FPR rarely goes bad. I wouldn't concern yourself with it.

The fuel injectors need to be told to open, you're concentrating on the fuel pump, it could be something electrical. When you take the oil cap off, can you see the exhaust cam spinning with the starter?
What would be the reason to look and see if the exhaust cam is moving? To check the CAS?
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
You're better off asking here, as i have no idea what i'm talking about. haha

That was the last thing i said in your thread on CR though. Something isn't telling the injectos to fire, once we found out we has fuel at the rail.
This has been a crazy nightmare though. You had symptoms of other failures, but when checked it wasn't it.
I KNOW! Thank you for all the help you've given me so far. You were the only one on cr.net to help me out, probably because the only thing everyone else knows is which coils u can go lowest on and what tires stretch the best
94LagunaR is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #6  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,069
Total Cats: 2,114
Default

Attached Thumbnails Car wont start! Help!-hulk-no-like-wall-text-hulk-smash-wall-text-thumb.jpg  
Braineack is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:13 AM
  #7  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,069
Total Cats: 2,114
Default

Okay, so I've had a thread over on cr.net but there's really only one guy giving me advise, and I posted the thread over a month ago and the car still wont start.

So here's some info about my situation, I hope you guys can steer me in the right direction:

To start off, I did a wire tuck about a month and a half ago. Drove the car afterward no problem. 2 Two days later I went out there and the car wouldn't start.

All plugs have strong spark, all plugs are dry upon removal after cranking. With diagnostic F/P and GND jumped the pump made noise. Without it jumped the pump made no noise at all in RUN or cranking. Either way the car doesn't start.

Fuel Injector relay clicks when I turn the key. Fuel pump is getting 12+vdc. I removed a fuel line before the fuel filter; fuel came out. Removed a line after the fuel filter; fuel came out at the same rate approx. Followed the lines up to the front of the car and found them next to the intake manifold. Fuel did not flow out of these and if it did it was a small drip. Replaced the fuel pump. Fuel now flows out of the lines under the hood at a strong rate. During all this I have the fuel pump relay jumped because otherwise the fuel pump does not respond.

I sprayed starting fluid in the intake mani and the car coughed a little and tried to start. I removed the fuel rail, with injectors still attached and no fuel came out of the injectors with the new pump. Obviously all 4 injectors didn't fail at the exact same time (or did they?) Maybe the Fuel Injector relay is clicking but not actually working? FPR went bad? Anybody have any other suggestions?
Braineack is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:15 AM
  #8  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,069
Total Cats: 2,114
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Okay, so I've had a thread over on cr.net but there's really only one guy giving me advise, and I posted the thread over a month ago and the car still wont start.

So here's some info about my situation, I hope you guys can steer me in the right direction:

To start off, I did a wire tuck about a month and a half ago. Drove the car afterward no problem. 2 Two days later I went out there and the car wouldn't start.

All plugs have strong spark, all plugs are dry upon removal after cranking. With diagnostic F/P and GND jumped the pump made noise. Without it jumped the pump made no noise at all in RUN or cranking. Either way the car doesn't start.

Fuel Injector relay clicks when I turn the key. Fuel pump is getting 12+vdc. I removed a fuel line before the fuel filter; fuel came out. Removed a line after the fuel filter; fuel came out at the same rate approx. Followed the lines up to the front of the car and found them next to the intake manifold. Fuel did not flow out of these and if it did it was a small drip. Replaced the fuel pump. Fuel now flows out of the lines under the hood at a strong rate. During all this I have the fuel pump relay jumped because otherwise the fuel pump does not respond.

I sprayed starting fluid in the intake mani and the car coughed a little and tried to start. I removed the fuel rail, with injectors still attached and no fuel came out of the injectors with the new pump. Obviously all 4 injectors didn't fail at the exact same time (or did they?) Maybe the Fuel Injector relay is clicking but not actually working? FPR went bad? Anybody have any other suggestions?

So even with f/p jumped, you don't have resiudal fuel on the injectors after cranking, but you do have strong spark events?
Braineack is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:26 AM
  #9  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
So even with f/p jumped, you don't have resiudal fuel on the injectors after cranking, but you do have strong spark events?
There was some on the injectors when I pulled them which further confused me. But with the pump jumped and key set to RUN with the injectors pulled, the did nothing.
94LagunaR is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:34 AM
  #10  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,069
Total Cats: 2,114
Default

and you are postive you're getting spark?
Braineack is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:47 AM
  #11  
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,270
Total Cats: 766
Default

Hes getting a spark, which is made of electrons which is negative charge therefore negative.

Checked the injector relay?
triple88a is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:55 AM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
and you are postive you're getting spark?
Yes, strong spark on all 4

Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Hes getting a spark, which is made of electrons which is negative charge therefore negative.

Checked the injector relay?
Checked the relay. It clicks and I took it apart and it looks good. Pics are on the thread at cr.net
94LagunaR is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:05 AM
  #13  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Total Cats: 8
Default

Interesting. If you can confirm that you're getting fuel pressure AFTER the rail(pull the hose connected to the Fuel Pressure Regulator and crank the car) then the next step in the puzzle is injectors. Have you checked for 12v at the fuel injectors when the car is in the run position? If you do, then When you're cranking it, can you feel the injectors click? If you touch them while the motor's cranking you should feel them vibrate just a little. If they're gummed up, or they're not being grounded by the ECU, then they won't activate.

<- ran into a junkyard motor with 4 bad injectors once.
tpwalsh is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #14  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,069
Total Cats: 2,114
Default

If you're getting a spark, then the CAS is working, which means the fuel injectors are also getting power, since they all share the same 12v source.

So if we are sure the fuel pump is running and the fuel lines are in fact plumbed correctly, then the ECU is unable to control the injectors, so it either failed or the wiring to the injectors got messed up in the tuck.

Can you confirm the fuel line going to the FPR goes back to the hardline closest to the radiator, which also typically has a white paint dot on it from the factory.
Braineack is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:34 AM
  #15  
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,141
Total Cats: 198
Default

Where are you located, Laguna?
fooger03 is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:43 AM
  #16  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default

Originally Posted by tpwalsh View Post
Interesting. If you can confirm that you're getting fuel pressure AFTER the rail(pull the hose connected to the Fuel Pressure Regulator and crank the car) then the next step in the puzzle is injectors. Have you checked for 12v at the fuel injectors when the car is in the run position? If you do, then When you're cranking it, can you feel the injectors click? If you touch them while the motor's cranking you should feel them vibrate just a little. If they're gummed up, or they're not being grounded by the ECU, then they won't activate.

<- ran into a junkyard motor with 4 bad injectors once.
I'll check that when I get home, I'm at work right now

Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
If you're getting a spark, then the CAS is working, which means the fuel injectors are also getting power, since they all share the same 12v source.

So if we are sure the fuel pump is running and the fuel lines are in fact plumbed correctly, then the ECU is unable to control the injectors, so it either failed or the wiring to the injectors got messed up in the tuck.

Can you confirm the fuel line going to the FPR goes back to the hardline closest to the radiator, which also typically has a white paint dot on it from the factory.
I will also check this when I get home, even though I didn't touch any fuel lines besides the lines that went to the charcoal canister.

Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Where are you located, Laguna?
I'm in swfl, about 10 miles away from pdexta
94LagunaR is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:09 AM
  #17  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,462
Total Cats: 589
Default

Checking the cam is meant to see if the timing belt snapped.
curly is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:18 AM
  #18  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,069
Total Cats: 2,114
Default

Originally Posted by curly View Post
Checking the cam is meant to see if the timing belt snapped.
yeah but he wouldn't be sparking if the TB was snapped... this is sounding like a fueling issue.
Braineack is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:40 PM
  #19  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default

Originally Posted by curly View Post
Checking the cam is meant to see if the timing belt snapped.
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yeah but he wouldn't be sparking if the TB was snapped... this is sounding like a fueling issue.
Definitely a fueling issue
94LagunaR is offline  
Old 04-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #20  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 155
Total Cats: 1
Default

Getting no power to the injectors. Going to see if I can jump the fuel inj relay and maybe get power to them. If that doesn't work ill deloom all wires going to the injectors and try to find a break in one of them
94LagunaR is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Car wont start! Help!


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.