Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Damper question.

 
Old 07-21-2018, 09:43 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 940
Total Cats: 40
Default Damper question.

We haven't purchased an ATI or equivelant damper for our race motor yet.

We ran the 1600 turbo pretty succesfully for the past 4 years without and now with the 1800 had 4-5 succesfull race meetings.

It seems MT.net strict rule is to run one.............What is the typical failure of NOT having aftermarket damper?
mx5-kiwi is offline  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:29 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NorthWest NJ
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 70
Default

Possible failure of the oil pump.
x_25 is offline  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:15 PM
  #3  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 236
Total Cats: 46
Default

Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
Possible failure of the oil pump.
This, and potentially crankshaft failure in extreme cases. Especially when spinning it north of OEM redline
themonkeyman is offline  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:21 PM
  #4  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 241
Total Cats: -12
Default

http://www.fluidampr.com/news/new-fl...s-engine.-135/

Seems another alternative with MSRP of $490. Should hopefully get good reviews and lower price.
stevos555 is offline  
Old 07-23-2018, 05:03 AM
  #5  
ʎpunq qoq
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 593
Total Cats: 174
Default

I've posted this before but I don't run an aftermarket damper or a billet oil pump. I actually run an oem damper that has been cut down to around 2/3rds the weight (accessory ribs removed). My engine revs to 9k and my bearings are perfectly happy now that I run a sump baffle.

The theory of several top engine builders in Australia is that the oil pump gears fail when the oil pressure return valve chatters due to high revs and high oil flow. This puts backpressure on the oil pump gears and they blow apart. If you install an external oil pressure relief valve (Peterson makes one) with much larger diameter flow and close up the return valve in the oil pump, then the stock pump and balancer is fine. You also get the benefit of being able to externally adjust the oil pressure to suit your needs. If you are already running an external oil cooler the plumping is pretty simple, though you do need to tap the sump with a 10AN fitting for the oil return.

Buying a harmonic balancer, and billet oil pump is the MT.net recommended option. Alternatively buy a external relief valve and you can join the few of us who don't run anything extravagant. Of the 10 or so cars I've seen running this setup, none have failed oil pumps or cranks.

Having said all that.... I just picked up an unused Boundary high flow pump and a Supermiata damper 2nd hand. They were a good price so I couldn't resist. At some point they will both go on my motor because I like more oil pressure for cold starts and the Supermiata damper is actually lighter and looks nicer than my 25 year old cut down damper.
Madjak is offline  
Old 07-23-2018, 06:31 AM
  #6  
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,827
Total Cats: 55
Default

One of my builds has the peterson valve and has no issues.

I agree that it's a solution and the billet pump is a bandaid that happens to be good enough.
nitrodann is offline  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:20 AM
  #7  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 236
Total Cats: 46
Default

Originally Posted by Madjak View Post
I've posted this before but I don't run an aftermarket damper or a billet oil pump. I actually run an oem damper that has been cut down to around 2/3rds the weight (accessory ribs removed). My engine revs to 9k and my bearings are perfectly happy now that I run a sump baffle.

The theory of several top engine builders in Australia is that the oil pump gears fail when the oil pressure return valve chatters due to high revs and high oil flow. This puts backpressure on the oil pump gears and they blow apart. If you install an external oil pressure relief valve (Peterson makes one) with much larger diameter flow and close up the return valve in the oil pump, then the stock pump and balancer is fine. You also get the benefit of being able to externally adjust the oil pressure to suit your needs. If you are already running an external oil cooler the plumping is pretty simple, though you do need to tap the sump with a 10AN fitting for the oil return.

Buying a harmonic balancer, and billet oil pump is the MT.net recommended option. Alternatively buy a external relief valve and you can join the few of us who don't run anything extravagant. Of the 10 or so cars I've seen running this setup, none have failed oil pumps or cranks.

Having said all that.... I just picked up an unused Boundary high flow pump and a Supermiata damper 2nd hand. They were a good price so I couldn't resist. At some point they will both go on my motor because I like more oil pressure for cold starts and the Supermiata damper is actually lighter and looks nicer than my 25 year old cut down damper.
Hmmm, interesting. I thought it was the sintered metal gear in the OEM pump breaking up from centrifugal loads it wasn't built for. Good food for thought!
themonkeyman is offline  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:51 AM
  #8  
ʎpunq qoq
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 593
Total Cats: 174
Default

Failure is definately not from centrifugal forces. My stock pump spins to 9k constantl and once to 10,500 on an over rev. Oops. That's what happens when you hit 3rd instead of 5th with a dog box shifting at 8600rpm.

Failure may occur from crank deflection in big horsepower cars deflecting the crank enough to cause contact between the gears. But I think bearings will go first? Maybe.
Madjak is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
dstn2bdoa
Engine Performance
1
05-22-2010 01:18 PM
pschmidt
General Miata Chat
2
05-27-2009 04:53 PM
johnwag
Miata parts for sale/trade
7
02-24-2009 10:34 AM
TravisR
Engine Performance
25
10-17-2008 08:22 AM
demetri
WTB
3
03-20-2008 08:34 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Damper question.


Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.