dyno tuned 3071
09-28-2009, 09:06 AM
#43
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I don't see injector duty cycle on your graph. What is your master fuel set to?
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09-28-2009, 09:22 AM
#45
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So what do Hydra/MS do that Link doesn't? The same tune should should produce the same numbers right? If they're both tuned to 11.5AFR with the same spark table, hp should be identical. Resolution helps driveability/part throttle fine tuning, not necessarily peak numbers. I could see 50hp from a SAFC fuel tune only to a standalone fuel/timing tune, but 50hp from equally tuned standalones? seriously?
These quotes are taken in context
Originally Posted by Jeremy
In addition to the resolution I think it has a lot to do with precision. For example, a slower processor may not be as precise as a faster processor (especially wth limited resolution), meaning that when it says it fires and when it really fires may not be exact- in terms of hysteresis between spark events as the motor turns. (Just a guess.) That means your spark map in your ECU would have to be set to the lowest common denominator, which may be restrictive to potential.
Originally Posted by Jeremy
If spark is spark and fuel is fuel, why aren't we all still running carburetors? If computers are all the same, how come I don't still use my Commodore 64? I'm not a computer or software engineer so I can't really "bench race" all the theoretical answers- all I can do is work with & tune the systems to the best they can be and report on the results..
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09-28-2009, 10:16 AM
#47
5 rpm points? Ok, you win. On the carb analogy, I bet that car would make more power on carb than the link 
Processor speed isn't a big issue for power runs since there are only two parametes load and rpm. Didn't consider spark hysteresis. Never knew it was a problem.
Thymer, you're using water only, no meth?
Processor speed isn't a big issue for power runs since there are only two parametes load and rpm. Didn't consider spark hysteresis. Never knew it was a problem.Thymer, you're using water only, no meth?
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09-28-2009, 10:19 AM
#48
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5 rpm points? Ok, you win. On the carb analogy, I bet that car would make more power on carb than the link Processor speed isn't a big issue for power runs since there are only two parametes load and rpm. Didn't consider spark hysteresis. Never knew it was a problem.
Thymer, you're using water only, no meth?
Processor speed isn't a big issue for power runs since there are only two parametes load and rpm. Didn't consider spark hysteresis. Never knew it was a problem.Thymer, you're using water only, no meth?
I do have a couple old VW bug carbs laying around...
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09-28-2009, 10:30 AM
#49
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5 rpm points? Ok, you win. On the carb analogy, I bet that car would make more power on carb than the link Processor speed isn't a big issue for power runs since there are only two parametes load and rpm. Didn't consider spark hysteresis. Never knew it was a problem.
Thymer, you're using water only, no meth?
Processor speed isn't a big issue for power runs since there are only two parametes load and rpm. Didn't consider spark hysteresis. Never knew it was a problem.Thymer, you're using water only, no meth?
I don't see how a power pull would be any less difficult than cruising. Really, it seems like it would be more difficult because it's required to be most precise.
It's never just two parameters. It's got at least 5
MAP, RPM, CLT, AIT, Knock and is probably running all sorts of loops
IE
If CLT < X
Then Fuel * 110%
Else Fuel * 100%
It's also looking for knock, looking for air temp (pulls power if air temp exceeds a set threshold), is running closed loop EBC, looking for neutral and clutch switches, running the keypad. And it's gotta squirt and spark the car. Frankly it's doing all kinds of stuff, and when it was new people were claiming the processor was underpowered.
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09-28-2009, 10:40 AM
#51
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I tell you what... I'll sell you my hydra with my awesome map that got me that same power at half the boost on a smaller turbo and see what it does for you.
Seriously, I'd love to see your EGTs. I bet they are way up in melty valve territory. I dont think it's just the Link though. There's more going on here.
Seriously, I'd love to see your EGTs. I bet they are way up in melty valve territory. I dont think it's just the Link though. There's more going on here.
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09-28-2009, 10:51 AM
#52
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I tell you what... I'll sell you my hydra with my awesome map that got me that same power at half the boost on a smaller turbo and see what it does for you.
Seriously, I'd love to see your EGTs. I bet they are way up in melty valve territory. I dont think it's just the Link though. There's more going on here.
Seriously, I'd love to see your EGTs. I bet they are way up in melty valve territory. I dont think it's just the Link though. There's more going on here.
I agree, something else is going on here. My first thought was the timing belt but it's dead nuts on, I triple checked. The other thing I thought was weird was how high the torque was.
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09-28-2009, 10:52 AM
#53
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I tell you what... I'll sell you my hydra with my awesome map that got me that same power at half the boost on a smaller turbo and see what it does for you.
Seriously, I'd love to see your EGTs. I bet they are way up in melty valve territory. I dont think it's just the Link though. There's more going on here.
Seriously, I'd love to see your EGTs. I bet they are way up in melty valve territory. I dont think it's just the Link though. There's more going on here.
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09-28-2009, 10:57 AM
#54
6.2GPH really is a lot. Like you said, you should tune without injection first since it just adds complexity. At 6.2GPH (390cc) it's likely that the mixture wants to run richer since Meth burns at 6:1 stoich compared to gasolines 14.7:1. If my math is right the mixture (4 injectors 750cc@45% plus one 390cc@50% spraying methane) would be stoich at 13.65AFR and a comparable safe 12:1AFR for boost on gasoline would be 11.13AFR on the gas/meth mixture. Running lean is also likely the reason you cant advance timing without introducing knock.
Last edited by ARTech; 09-28-2009 at 11:45 AM.
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09-28-2009, 10:59 AM
#55
Me thinks too much water is killing combustion. You are probably at like a 50% water to fuel ratio. Way over the recommended 25% max.
Also I have another theory that I thought about just now.
Link = failboat
Redskins = failboat
Link = Redskins
Your motor is being run by the Redskin! No wonder is sucks!
Also I have another theory that I thought about just now.
Link = failboat
Redskins = failboat
Link = Redskins
Your motor is being run by the Redskin! No wonder is sucks!
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09-28-2009, 11:01 AM
#57
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Me thinks too much water is killing combustion. You are probably at like a 50% water to fuel ratio. Way over the recommended 25% max.
Also I have another theory that I thought about just now.
Link = failboat
Redskins = failboat
Link = Redskins
Your motor is being run by the Redskin! No wonder is sucks!
Also I have another theory that I thought about just now.
Link = failboat
Redskins = failboat
Link = Redskins
Your motor is being run by the Redskin! No wonder is sucks!
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09-28-2009, 11:19 AM
#59
5 MAP points.
I don't see how a power pull would be any less difficult than cruising. Really, it seems like it would be more difficult because it's required to be most precise.
It's never just two parameters. It's got at least 5
MAP, RPM, CLT, AIT, Knock and is probably running all sorts of loops
IE
If CLT < X
Then Fuel * 110%
Else Fuel * 100%
It's also looking for knock, looking for air temp (pulls power if air temp exceeds a set threshold), is running closed loop EBC, looking for neutral and clutch switches, running the keypad. And it's gotta squirt and spark the car. Frankly it's doing all kinds of stuff, and when it was new people were claiming the processor was underpowered.
I don't see how a power pull would be any less difficult than cruising. Really, it seems like it would be more difficult because it's required to be most precise.
It's never just two parameters. It's got at least 5
MAP, RPM, CLT, AIT, Knock and is probably running all sorts of loops
IE
If CLT < X
Then Fuel * 110%
Else Fuel * 100%
It's also looking for knock, looking for air temp (pulls power if air temp exceeds a set threshold), is running closed loop EBC, looking for neutral and clutch switches, running the keypad. And it's gotta squirt and spark the car. Frankly it's doing all kinds of stuff, and when it was new people were claiming the processor was underpowered.
Closed loop is a preset value whereas open loop is a constant battle to find the best value. You have accel/decel afr, throtte deltas, load deltas, pumps, etc.
Either way, it's settled, link sucks.
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