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Old 09-29-2009, 01:21 AM   #61
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I think you are drowing it up top alil man what are your aits going to 6.25 is good for more like 350 than 250 whp. How much h20 are you using vs methanol etc? Definatly add a few more degrees advance on your midrange and then cut the water back a hair, listen for knock and feel for more power if things are improved then try to cut back alil more or raise your timming. There comes a point where if you spray to much water you will contribute to blowing out the spark and then you will hamstring yourself with that as well.
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:41 AM   #62
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no matter what's goin' on with the ecu. for the boost and turbo your running you def. need a 3" exhaust. turbo back. i have one with a dynomax race muffler (straight thru, hardly any packing) right after the flex pipe, and then mandrel piping back to reg. exit. it made horsepower i could feel immediately after picking it up from my buddy's muffler shop. it had 2.5" with a ricer (but straight thru) muffler when i bought it. it's not loud and sounds pretty good.

also, i have my knock sensor unplugged. the knock sensor went bad and started showing knock more and more until it started cutting out at 7 psi!
yours could be getting too sesitive like someone mentioned. also what is your knock threshold set at?

your spark was blowing out? what's your gap set at? what plugs are you running? did you check the gap?

i agree you should be making more at that boost. but i don't think the ecu alone will solve it. sounds like you have a number of things conspiring against you. you said you're running low on funds. i would try the easiest, cheapest solutions first. it's easy to say buy a ms. but unless someone is sponsoring?
i really need a full v-band setup, but that **** just isn't happening in the near future! lol ......good luck.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:51 AM   #63
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This is the first time I have read this thread...very interesting. I feel bad for you!

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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I tell you what... I'll sell you my hydra with my awesome map that got me that same power at half the boost on a smaller turbo and see what it does for you.

Damn straight. At the last MT.net dyno day I dynojetted at 269rwhp @ 12psi with a 2560 and the '94 head, but that was using my FM replacement mani and downpipe and full 3" exhaust with a cat. And no WI, 8 year old 440cc RC injectors, and a fuel/ignition map from a different setup. Sooo....man I am sad for you. I wish I had some constructive advice...I would turn off the WI and see what you can do, and get a 3" exhaust, and get a good ECU. I'm running the AEM, you can get those cheap enough now, ~$900.

I didn't see where you said what intercooler you were running?
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:16 AM   #64
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This is the first time I have read this thread...very interesting. I feel bad for you!




Damn straight. At the last MT.net dyno day I dynojetted at 269rwhp @ 12psi with a 2560 and the '94 head, but that was using my FM replacement mani and downpipe and full 3" exhaust with a cat. And no WI, 8 year old 440cc RC injectors, and a fuel/ignition map from a different setup. Sooo....man I am sad for you. I wish I had some constructive advice...I would turn off the WI and see what you can do, and get a 3" exhaust, and get a good ECU. I'm running the AEM, you can get those cheap enough now, ~$900.

I didn't see where you said what intercooler you were running?
Running a FM2 intercooler setup.
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:40 AM   #65
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Which FM2? Don't they have a few different sized cores? Is it one of the older ones with the real long metal plumbing and vertical flow I/C cores or one of the newer ones with the silicone hose plumbing?
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:45 AM   #66
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Which FM2? Don't they have a few different sized cores? Is it one of the older ones with the real long metal plumbing and vertical flow I/C cores or one of the newer ones with the silicone hose plumbing?
The older ones with the metal plumbing
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:48 AM   #67
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The under the rad version? With the standard intercooler?
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:50 AM   #68
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The under the rad version? With the standard intercooler?
yessir
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:52 AM   #69
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So when I asked you what generation hardware you're running, did you not find it relevant to share that you're running the old-as-dirt system?

So I bet you're running the contemporary exhaust manifold?

The new stuff is so much better than the old stuff, it's not funny.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:10 AM   #70
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Yeah I think we found a majority of the issue IMHO.

I would in order:
change intercooler & plumbing (ebay 18x12x3 core and 2.5" pipes)
change exhaust (3" and metal core cat if you need a cat)
change downpipe
change manifold
change ecu

Then you will have a lot of fun.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:13 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Yeah I think we found a majority of the issue IMHO.

I would in order:
change intercooler & plumbing (ebay 18x12x3 core and 2.5" pipes)
change exhaust (3" and metal core cat if you need a cat)
change downpipe
change manifold
change ecu

Then you will have a lot of fun.
So I'm hearing what your're saying here but.... I was making [email protected] with the 2560. The downpipe is the new FM cast piece, exhaust is a straight pipe. I'd think I'd still have more than a 25hp gain with the 3071 @ 16, wouldn't you?
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:19 AM   #72
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A 3" exhaust off the DP shouldn't be a bad compromise. I'd still start with the ECU first personally.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:25 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
A 3" exhaust off the DP shouldn't be a bad compromise. I'd still start with the ECU first personally.
I tend to agree, just don't want to start throwing parts at it just yet. I could probably cobble together a couple thousand more. Is anyone running the Adaptronic and getting big power?
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:30 AM   #74
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DIYPNP will run standalone for half the cost of an adaptronic. With the money you save there, buy an intercooler.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:32 AM   #75
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Then you're on the right path with starting with the ECU. Then you can replace the components of the system that are holding you back.

The adaptronic is still new, but so far it's beginning to shape up as one of the better ECUs. We should have Neo's 1.6L dynoed with one in Nov, possibly y8s if he's up to it. It's more robust/faster then even the MS is.

Ben you really think the IC is that big of an issue? Why not ideal, I don't see why it would be a show stopper, unless it couldn't shed the heat, but then he has WI in the mix.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:35 AM   #76
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I don't think those old FM I/C's flow much at all.

But yah, +25rwhp with a much larger turbo and +4psi is wrong.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:39 AM   #77
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a 3071 at 16 psi should be WELL over 300 whp.

a 3071 at the same boost as your 2560 is probably worth the 25hp alone.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:46 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
a 3071 at 16 psi should be WELL over 300 whp.

a 3071 at the same boost as your 2560 is probably worth the 25hp alone.
agreed. I sent the data to Jeremy @ FM to get his opinion as well.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:46 AM   #79
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They key to success is maximizing efficiencies everywhere, right? I know my 91 was happier with the much shorter and simpler around the rad setup I eventually put in compared to the under the rad set up I did initially.

For even dollars, he can get better management and a better charge cooler. The adaptronic is a fine looking piece, but I don't see how it's worth double the DIYPNP. (Hell Scott, you might want to look into upgrading your MSI to MSII, it's a much better system [faster, better accuracy, better resolution, more feature rich]).

But I see other mechanical deficiencies.
(1) old style FM manifold is ugly ugly ugly compared to what's been coming out the last few years. flow is much poorer. I think I have pics of my FMIII manifold (that I sold to wildfire) around here somewhere. Needed much machining.

(2) 2.5" exhaust has gotta go. There's a huge bottleneck, larger than the intercooler.

Ahh, ****. Scott, you're right. For even dollars to the adaptronic, a DIYPNP + 3" exhaust would be the ticket. Followed by intercooler.


And the tuning is suspect. It really looks like he needs more fuel and less water.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:49 AM   #80
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Something we've yet to address is health of the engine. We're assuming it's a compotent mill with decent compression and leak down, but has this been confirmed? I believe you wrote earlier that you double checked mechanical timing to be spot on. What about the damper/crank pulley assembly? Is it OEM 1994? That can make a *huge* difference if it's failing.
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