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Old 07-13-2011, 02:55 AM   #1
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Default Engine Build Budget - Chopping the fat.

I am trying to put together an engine build budget, I want to keep it as low as possible obviously, but I would like to build it for a reliable 350-400whp. Just a track toy so not many kms as such but they will be abusive ones. I don't want to skimp on parts which could lead to failure but the lower the cost, the sooner I can do something. I am already have enough power out of the stock 1600/T25 setup to have a little fun so if it means waiting a little longer to finish the engine in order to have it built solid then so be it.

I already have a GT2871R turbo sitting here ready to go, will be making a manifold myself similar to Tim's Absurdflow low mount and it is all going on an early 1.8 into an NA. Looking to build it to run out to 8000rpm, but will probably run it to 7700 or so for a safety margin.

I have a fair list of parts that I don't feel are optional, but I picked out a few things that I don't know if they are not really necessary, so please give you opinions on what would be the best cost vs reliability option. I have decided to stick with stock valves with just a little tidy up of the head, and mazdaspeed solid lifters with supertech duel springs for the revs, and will probably run moderate cams ~265 deg 10mm lift.

Options List - Higher cost option followed by lower cost:
JE pistons with eagle rods or supertech pistons with Mtuned rods
84mm Pistons so I can just bore and forget or 84.5 and sonic test block (extra 22.5cc woo!)
BE Racer oil pump or BE gears in stock pump housing
ATI Superdamper or stock
Cometic or similar or Genuine Mazda MLS headgasket
Main Bearing Support Plate or not

Cheers,

Tim
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:16 AM   #2
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Thought I would put up a pic of where I am up to. Just built a cage in it, this photo is as of a couple of weeks ago, I have since done some more work on the cage. It is now just about ready for paint.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:41 AM   #3
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Wish I could help, subscribing for my own info though. Looking into building mine.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:53 AM   #4
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Yeah subscribed for my own info. good luck with the build...nice cage!
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:12 AM   #5
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(zack morris's phone)

Run less rpm and more boost and you shaved a **** ton of cash for supporting mods
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:20 AM   #6
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(zack morris's phone)

Run less rpm and more boost and you shaved a **** ton of cash for supporting mods
How do you mean? I guess it would make the super damper a little less necessary?
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:24 AM   #7
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pretty much, and maybe no oil gears.


If I were to do it, I'd probably go stock bore with m-tuned pistons rods, supertech or wiesco pistons. Simply wham bam job.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
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pretty much, and maybe no oil gears.


If I were to do it, I'd probably go stock bore with m-tuned pistons rods, supertech or wiesco pistons. Simply wham bam job.
Welcome to my life, my engine built with the same logic has been great with almost no maintenance and it only cost me $2100 in parts and labor.

If you want a <300whp engine like mine, it's cheap. When you go over $300 I question long-term reliability. I did a bore, hone, balance, fresh valve seals, cleaned up the casting in the ports, 3-angle on the valves, pistons, china-rods, ARP main bolts, ARP headstuds, and left the oil pump gears in a box because they didn't arrive in time. I could probably run more power through this engine considering I did a few track events at 290whp, but running it with more boost is out of my budget. Do you want 6mpg on the track, or 3? I also plan to get 10-years out of this engine, you won't.

I think everything you listed is required except for the ATI damper...but that is probably a requirement at your power level. I'd like to have one if they weren't $600.
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:05 AM   #9
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except for the ATI damper...but that is probably a requirement at your power level. I'd like to have one if they weren't $600.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-918522/
save 100 , that's what I got...+ no tax or shipping..
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:31 PM   #10
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-918522/
save 100 , that's what I got...+ no tax or shipping..
Summit are a pain in the **** for international shipping. MiataRoadster has them for 525 though. Even if I don't get the balancer, they have alot of the parts I need at a reasonable price, can anyone comment on whether they are good to deal with?
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:40 PM   #11
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2871R good for 400rwhp?
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:49 PM   #12
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2871R good for 400rwhp?
According to Garrett all the 2871R's should be good for over 450hp except two. Now if a miata can hit 400hp with one has yet to be seen. I think given a perfect setup you could prob hit right around the 400hp mark.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:40 PM   #13
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Turns101 was making over 350whp and a couple hp short of 400 with water inj on exactly the same turbo.

Realistically I would be happy with over 300whp but it would be nice to see excess of 350. 400 is more of an upper limit. The turbo is the 56trim but with the .63 tial rear, looking for absolutely all the response I can get at this sort of power level.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #14
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Which 2871 do you have? You might want to look into a VVT head instead of the ATI dampner. It should help your midrange out a lot. Also are you planning on going with E85 or just pump gas. What engine management?
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:32 PM   #15
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Turbo is 56 trim front wheel with a T04E antisurge front housing and Tial .63 v band rear, all brand new still as I bought it from ATP some time ago when I was first feeling motivated.

I don't want to stuff around with/add the cost of doing the vvt head so I will just be sticking with the NA with the ports tidied up a little. I am leaning towards just running two exhaust cams, even if just to begin with to keep the initial cost down.

ECU is Vipec which if you havn't had anything to do with it, is basically a Link G4 with different firmware. It seems to be quite capable.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:01 AM   #16
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you will need a 0.86 tial housing to make more than 350.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
According to Garrett all the 2871R's should be good for over 450hp except two. Now if a miata can hit 400hp with one has yet to be seen. I think given a perfect setup you could prob hit right around the 400hp mark.
haha. funny as there's only 3. I like the specs on the 56trim.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:58 AM   #18
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Here is the Garrett Spec sheet I have been looking at. According to the info he has given us I believe zoomzoom has the 743347-4 which they say is good for "280 - 475hp".

I agree with shlammed though that the .86 housing would make it much easier to hit 400hp.

Last edited by shuiend; 07-14-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:23 PM   #19
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http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

I plan to use their hp engine kit, ebay rods, supertech springs/retainers, and BE opg's. ~$1700 in parts or so. Of course a lot less if you skimp on the springs/ retainers and/or opg's...
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Here is the Garrett Spec sheet I have been looking at. According to the info he has given us I believe zoomzoom has the 743347-4 which they say is good for "280 - 475hp".

I agree with shlammed though that the .86 housing would make it much easier to hit 400hp.
This is your turbo. you hit 400, right?
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