Evans Waterless coolant
10-10-2013, 11:45 AM
#1
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Evans Waterless coolant
I am tearing my engine down this winter and am thinking about refilling it with this waterless coolant. They now have a high performance formula and I am wondering if anyone here has tried it on a track car? This stuffs boiling point is 375*, so should help with hot spots. It is non corrosive. http://www.evanscooling.com/
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10-10-2013, 12:37 PM
#4
Saw Jay Leno's Garage episode on this stuff. Pretty cool. I'd wanna clean the everliving life out of the engine water passages and jackets before refilling with this stuff.
Actually I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. Engine is out and on a stand, but I'm not sure if that helps
Actually I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. Engine is out and on a stand, but I'm not sure if that helps
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10-10-2013, 01:05 PM
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The guy on the video said you can have upto 3% water with no ill effects. I would think turning the engine upside down on the stand would get most out and then use air pressure for the heater core and you should be good to go.
My main concern for the track is how well does it conduct thermo cooling? Antifreeze raises the boiling point but is not as efficient at cooling as water.
My main concern for the track is how well does it conduct thermo cooling? Antifreeze raises the boiling point but is not as efficient at cooling as water.
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10-10-2013, 01:14 PM
#6
It doesnt conduct heat as well as water in theory. But there also shouldnt be any localized boiling with it, so it might conduct heat better. Its really hard to say. Theoretically you can run the car hotter without damaging it as long as the higher temp doesnt create clearance issues with the pistons.
The water should eventually boil its way out after running the car since PEG doesnt raise the boiling temperature of the water left in it. I'd probably run the car with napa rad flush by the instructions then run the evans flush and then fill it.
The water should eventually boil its way out after running the car since PEG doesnt raise the boiling temperature of the water left in it. I'd probably run the car with napa rad flush by the instructions then run the evans flush and then fill it.
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10-10-2013, 02:05 PM
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NorCal Rotary and Roadsters • View topic - Zero pressure cooling system (Evans NPG propylene glycol)
This is from 2010, these guys probably have a bit more data now
Both minime and 2/3rdsCobra are users here on MT.
This is from 2010, these guys probably have a bit more data now
Originally Posted by Minime
go here: Home » Engine Cooling Systems
I can tell you two guys that I know personally and highly recommend their opinions of all things automotive that run evans NPG in their hardcore turbo miatas:
JasonCsbb, aka Jason Cuadra(he will probably chime in here)
2/3rdsCobra - not a member of this forum, but is very active on mturbo.net and miataforum
There are several good reasons to switch to it and really the ONLY possible reason you might NOT want to run it(which is not really a big deal) is that if you do happen to have a coolant leak and you need to top off or refill the system you will have to search for another propylene glycol coolant such as Sierra brand coolant. You absolutely cannot mix water with propylene glycol and in fact you have to flush your system prior to refilling with evans. They sell a flush solution, but you can just buy a few gallons of Sierra and use that to dilute what little water is left in the system after you drain the coolant the first time.
Key reasons to switch:
Zero pressure system - no more blown hoses and no more buying replacement high pressure radiator caps.
Eliminates hot spots in the head(which is the primary cause of pre-combustion detonation) and the block.
Because there is no water vaporization(no hot spots) you can run significantly higher coolant temps without warping the head and causing detonation.
No need to let the turbo cool down, just turn the engine off and you will not hear the popping and hissing sounds as you hear when you run water + coolant - again, this is H2O vaporizing inside the hot turbo.
More even cooling, again - no h2o vaporization, so no hot spots.
NO corrosion, no rust, no scale deposits inside the cooling passages = wide open/clean coolant passages to allow better flow.
Case in point - When I was running MiniMe on the track BEFORE I rebuilt the engine and went turbo I was running a PWR aluminum radiator + I had the stage-2 cooling fan setup from FM(big *** SPAL paddle fan and smaller SPAL fan), wired together. On a 100*+ day I would only be able to run 2-3 laps before I pegged the temp gauge and had to do a cool down lap. I did not have a coolant reroute fwiw.
After I put on the turbo, the only other mod I was running NPG-R and added an an oil cooler - I still had no coolant reroute. On a hot day I would still peg the coolant gauge, but it took a bit longer(like 3-4 laps) and it krept up slower. I also ran one full lap without noticing the gauge was COMPLETELY pegged off the gauge. I know for a fact if I was running water + coolant or even pure water + purple ice/redline waterwetter I would have blown the head gasket and warped the **** out of the head. I was seriously worried, but I drove off the track and then around the paddock for a bit to let it cool off. I then drove out on the main road (out at Thill) for a few miles and when I got back to the paddock I popped the hood and NO leaks, NO noises - all was well.
That was enough proof to me that this **** works a hell of a lot better than water + coolant.
My buddy Myron(2/3rdsCobra) was the one who turned me onto it. He performed a test and drained his 50/50 dilution of coolant to distilled water. Within one day the coolant and water had completely separated. Think about what this does inside your head and block after you shut the car off for even just 1/2 a day - the water separates and starts to heavily corrode your block and leave deposits inside all of the cooling passages in the block and head. Not good.
It's the **** - I have 6 gallons of it waiting to go into the racecar and into minime's engine(once I get it R&R'd with the wiseco pistons).
I can tell you two guys that I know personally and highly recommend their opinions of all things automotive that run evans NPG in their hardcore turbo miatas:
JasonCsbb, aka Jason Cuadra(he will probably chime in here)
2/3rdsCobra - not a member of this forum, but is very active on mturbo.net and miataforum
There are several good reasons to switch to it and really the ONLY possible reason you might NOT want to run it(which is not really a big deal) is that if you do happen to have a coolant leak and you need to top off or refill the system you will have to search for another propylene glycol coolant such as Sierra brand coolant. You absolutely cannot mix water with propylene glycol and in fact you have to flush your system prior to refilling with evans. They sell a flush solution, but you can just buy a few gallons of Sierra and use that to dilute what little water is left in the system after you drain the coolant the first time.
Key reasons to switch:
Zero pressure system - no more blown hoses and no more buying replacement high pressure radiator caps.
Eliminates hot spots in the head(which is the primary cause of pre-combustion detonation) and the block.
Because there is no water vaporization(no hot spots) you can run significantly higher coolant temps without warping the head and causing detonation.
No need to let the turbo cool down, just turn the engine off and you will not hear the popping and hissing sounds as you hear when you run water + coolant - again, this is H2O vaporizing inside the hot turbo.
More even cooling, again - no h2o vaporization, so no hot spots.
NO corrosion, no rust, no scale deposits inside the cooling passages = wide open/clean coolant passages to allow better flow.
Case in point - When I was running MiniMe on the track BEFORE I rebuilt the engine and went turbo I was running a PWR aluminum radiator + I had the stage-2 cooling fan setup from FM(big *** SPAL paddle fan and smaller SPAL fan), wired together. On a 100*+ day I would only be able to run 2-3 laps before I pegged the temp gauge and had to do a cool down lap. I did not have a coolant reroute fwiw.
After I put on the turbo, the only other mod I was running NPG-R and added an an oil cooler - I still had no coolant reroute. On a hot day I would still peg the coolant gauge, but it took a bit longer(like 3-4 laps) and it krept up slower. I also ran one full lap without noticing the gauge was COMPLETELY pegged off the gauge. I know for a fact if I was running water + coolant or even pure water + purple ice/redline waterwetter I would have blown the head gasket and warped the **** out of the head. I was seriously worried, but I drove off the track and then around the paddock for a bit to let it cool off. I then drove out on the main road (out at Thill) for a few miles and when I got back to the paddock I popped the hood and NO leaks, NO noises - all was well.
That was enough proof to me that this **** works a hell of a lot better than water + coolant.
My buddy Myron(2/3rdsCobra) was the one who turned me onto it. He performed a test and drained his 50/50 dilution of coolant to distilled water. Within one day the coolant and water had completely separated. Think about what this does inside your head and block after you shut the car off for even just 1/2 a day - the water separates and starts to heavily corrode your block and leave deposits inside all of the cooling passages in the block and head. Not good.
It's the **** - I have 6 gallons of it waiting to go into the racecar and into minime's engine(once I get it R&R'd with the wiseco pistons).
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10-10-2013, 11:25 PM
#8
I run the stuff in my dirt bike. With water based coolant, it would puke it guts out on steep/technical trails at altitude. With the Evens, never had it happen again. It might not run any cooler, but the coolant stays in the system. I would use it in my car if I had a cooling problem, but I havent had a problem.
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10-11-2013, 09:01 AM
#9
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Is this stuff track friendly? Meaning - if I burst a hose while on track, will the cleanup crew have to come out and clean it up while the wrecker crew pulls the other cars out of the armco that spun from it? Being glycol based, I assume not...
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10-11-2013, 10:32 AM
#11
My brother ran it with his Aprilia Daytona Sportbike team in 2009.
It works if you use it correctly, but it's not magic. You have to find a zero pressure cap, you have to get every last bit of water out of the system for it to be really effective, and you have to be willing to run the system at ~250+F, which scares people for some reason. You also have to keep an eye on oil temps, as oil becomes the temperature limiting fluid in the engine at that point.
Also, most tracks will allow NPG-R if you ask the safety steward. You also have almost no chance of bursting a hose in a zero pressure system, and if you smashed the car up hard enough to let the coolant out, you probably oiled the track too, and I'd rather drive over coolant than oil...
It works if you use it correctly, but it's not magic. You have to find a zero pressure cap, you have to get every last bit of water out of the system for it to be really effective, and you have to be willing to run the system at ~250+F, which scares people for some reason. You also have to keep an eye on oil temps, as oil becomes the temperature limiting fluid in the engine at that point.
Also, most tracks will allow NPG-R if you ask the safety steward. You also have almost no chance of bursting a hose in a zero pressure system, and if you smashed the car up hard enough to let the coolant out, you probably oiled the track too, and I'd rather drive over coolant than oil...
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10-11-2013, 11:50 AM
#14
KWS Aprilia ran OEM over flow bottles too, I believe. I imagine the stock over flow bottle on a Miata is probably twice as large as it needs to be to accomodate Grandma's maintenance schedule.
BTW, NPG-R smells like grape jelly, but it DOES NOT taste like it. Avoid getting that stuff in your mouth at all cost. It is some serious kind of foul.
BTW, NPG-R smells like grape jelly, but it DOES NOT taste like it. Avoid getting that stuff in your mouth at all cost. It is some serious kind of foul.
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10-11-2013, 12:15 PM
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On the Jay Leno video the guy says it is not poisonous to dogs or cats if spilt on the ground, and that it can be injested. I don't know how good it taste, but nice to know that if my dog licks a little he won't die.
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10-11-2013, 03:15 PM
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Polyethylene glycol is a prescription laxative, iirc. They give you a jug to drink the night before you get certain procedures done. It ain't pretty what it does to a fella.
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10-11-2013, 07:02 PM
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Saw Jay Leno's Garage episode on this stuff. Pretty cool. I'd wanna clean the everliving life out of the engine water passages and jackets before refilling with this stuff.
Actually I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. Engine is out and on a stand, but I'm not sure if that helps
Actually I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. Engine is out and on a stand, but I'm not sure if that helps
In order to get all the water out, we filled the system with rubbing alcohol, then drained it and blew some compressed air in it, then left the cap and drain open overnight. Filled with Evans and no issues.
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