Fab9 COPS kit?
12-11-2013, 09:30 PM
#21
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The wires need to be spliced into your existing harness. I too would be much more likely to buy the kit if it were plug-and-play. Not that splicing six wires is difficult, but....
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12-12-2013, 02:24 AM
#22
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Perhaps sporadic communication would be more accurate.
Some say the sporadicity begins after the money has been transferred.
No personal experience. Lots of reading (mostly sums me up in general)
Some say the sporadicity begins after the money has been transferred.
No personal experience. Lots of reading (mostly sums me up in general)
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12-12-2013, 03:02 AM
#23
Erat. I am also interested, but got some gold responses from him, but like any product the shop doesnt reveal everything and that's fine.
He told me that the kit had denso and he can substitute Denso IV20 vs the 27 that come with the kit. the 20's are heat range 5 or stock I believe and theres no fricking way i need heat range 9 on my stock car. Plus its 30 bucks for plugs. Dang! Just got some V powas! for 10 bucks I doubt COPS need Iridium, that's just to make them last longer. (someone correct me if need be).
The COPS controller is just another igniter. 1.6's have them separate, 1.8's its built into the coils. Its a way of collapsing the magnetic field inthe coils so magic happens and transforms the 12v to 14 thousand yadaadadada. Its nothing more than a switch. Assuming the coils have 2 wires and need to be "controlled", which they do. Those wires are 12V and ground. Simple! You know how to wire a light bulb right? Well, one of those wires should go to the controller the other one, I'm guessing 12V comes from the original harness and supplies power. And you can mix the up as I think they both come from the battery that takes care of 2/6 wires of the original coils. The next 2 are from the ecu as signal wires tells when to fire. Its batch fire, so its 2 instead of 4. Two at a time or pairs. Sequential is 4 and it fires 1-4-3-2 or something like that. Before we were just making sure to burn the gas during the exhaust stroke. I guess it was for emissions, but now single coils fire better and we only use them one at a time.
Now back to the last 2 wire which I think are grounds. 2 because 2 coils. And those probs ground on the throttle body. So other than learning how to make proper slices. It should be simple.
But the dwell....hm...I believe these pencil coils are AEM brand and the controller looks identical to the aem one, so they shouldve resolved the dwell issue regardless of manufacturer they get they coils from (On aem's website it looks to be 79, but someone said the 1100R bike's coils are cheap, so most likely AEM did the research, made the controller and is just reselling the coils)
Another problem is getting the male pig tale for the stock coils. That's why its not PNP, its hard to find some connector that will match up to mazda/ford 3-pin coil connectors when those male parts are molded in to the coil's plastic. Anyone going to chop their coils to get some connectors? Unlikely. But by googling what I wrote might be a good starting point. Plus junk yards...
NVM the AEM controller is 179.
He told me that the kit had denso and he can substitute Denso IV20 vs the 27 that come with the kit. the 20's are heat range 5 or stock I believe and theres no fricking way i need heat range 9 on my stock car. Plus its 30 bucks for plugs. Dang! Just got some V powas! for 10 bucks I doubt COPS need Iridium, that's just to make them last longer. (someone correct me if need be).
The COPS controller is just another igniter. 1.6's have them separate, 1.8's its built into the coils. Its a way of collapsing the magnetic field inthe coils so magic happens and transforms the 12v to 14 thousand yadaadadada. Its nothing more than a switch. Assuming the coils have 2 wires and need to be "controlled", which they do. Those wires are 12V and ground. Simple! You know how to wire a light bulb right? Well, one of those wires should go to the controller the other one, I'm guessing 12V comes from the original harness and supplies power. And you can mix the up as I think they both come from the battery that takes care of 2/6 wires of the original coils. The next 2 are from the ecu as signal wires tells when to fire. Its batch fire, so its 2 instead of 4. Two at a time or pairs. Sequential is 4 and it fires 1-4-3-2 or something like that. Before we were just making sure to burn the gas during the exhaust stroke. I guess it was for emissions, but now single coils fire better and we only use them one at a time.
Now back to the last 2 wire which I think are grounds. 2 because 2 coils. And those probs ground on the throttle body. So other than learning how to make proper slices. It should be simple.
But the dwell....hm...I believe these pencil coils are AEM brand and the controller looks identical to the aem one, so they shouldve resolved the dwell issue regardless of manufacturer they get they coils from (On aem's website it looks to be 79, but someone said the 1100R bike's coils are cheap, so most likely AEM did the research, made the controller and is just reselling the coils)
Another problem is getting the male pig tale for the stock coils. That's why its not PNP, its hard to find some connector that will match up to mazda/ford 3-pin coil connectors when those male parts are molded in to the coil's plastic. Anyone going to chop their coils to get some connectors? Unlikely. But by googling what I wrote might be a good starting point. Plus junk yards...
NVM the AEM controller is 179.
Last edited by silvermazda; 12-12-2013 at 03:26 AM.
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12-12-2013, 03:32 AM
#24
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No coil retention bracket and a bunch of patently false claims about the power of Toyota coils. Or you could spend the extra $50 on our Toyota kit, which has dozens of examples working perfectly in the real world.
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12-12-2013, 08:44 AM
#26
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I've dabbled quite a bit with my megasquirt, and i'm learning. But i'm sorry, i am getting almost no information from that diagram.
Edit*
I was refering to the picture i posted on the previous page just to be clear. Fab9 emailed me a detailed .PDF with instructions. This is the first time seeing them, and things are much more clear now.
Last edited by Erat; 12-12-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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12-12-2013, 11:49 AM
#27
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You don't need the coil connectors themselves, you need this connector:
The above connector is on my NB1 harness. I need to confirm the pinout but in theory, using that connector you build your harness to plug in to the chassis harness rather than the ignition harness. Trying to find matches for the coil connectors to PNP into the ignition harness is a waste of time, so go to the next connector down the line and rebuild the entire harness.
I'm still waiting for Ballenger to list them so I can order a couple. (hint hint)
Using the Ballenger nomenclature this would be "Ignition Subharness Connector" AKA the 4 pin (2x2) Ignition connector that lives next to the 8 pin (4x2) Fuel Injection connector where the engine and chassis harnesses come together at the front of the engine
Ignition Subharness Plug (engine side)
Ignition Subharness Plug (engine side)
I'm still waiting for Ballenger to list them so I can order a couple. (hint hint)
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12-12-2013, 09:46 PM
#29
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Depends on your definition of "works". Their kit doesn't "work" on any head, if you use our definition of the word. If you want to just stuff the coils down the holes and not tie them down in any way, then yes, our Toyota coils "work" just as well as their kit does on VVT heads. That's not an acceptable solution to us, so we don't approve of our kits being used on VVT heads.
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12-13-2013, 12:30 PM
#30
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So much butthurt in this thread 
Fab9 responded to my emails quickly and they are answering my questions. I stated my reasons for being interested in this previously so I won't go into it again. If you think my reasons are stupid, that's also your opinion. Remember I'm the guy who bought a Rotrex for the CARB EO so obviously my judgement is "suspect" already. 
I'll put something in my build thread if/when it works out. Actually, I should go make another build thread with more win and less fail.
Fab9 responded to my emails quickly and they are answering my questions. I stated my reasons for being interested in this previously so I won't go into it again. If you think my reasons are stupid, that's also your opinion. Remember I'm the guy who bought a Rotrex for the CARB EO so obviously my judgement is "suspect" already. I'll put something in my build thread if/when it works out. Actually, I should go make another build thread with more win and less fail.
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12-13-2013, 06:04 PM
#31
Depends on your definition of "works". Their kit doesn't "work" on any head, if you use our definition of the word. If you want to just stuff the coils down the holes and not tie them down in any way, then yes, our Toyota coils "work" just as well as their kit does on VVT heads. That's not an acceptable solution to us, so we don't approve of our kits being used on VVT heads.
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12-13-2013, 07:52 PM
#40
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It may fit something earlier than NB1, I don't have one of those to compare to. I can tell you with 100% certainty the 4 pin ignition harness connectors pictured above are from my NB1 (99/00) because I'm the one who took them. I had A LOT of fun with this **** while sorting out my ignition issue.
The NB1 uses a 4 pin connector at the coil, but its a 1x4 configuration. I'm pretty sure this one does not exist. At the other end of the ignition harness on the NB1, the 4 pin connector (2x2) that connects to the chassis harness is what I posted directly above. This DOES exist and can be used for a PNP install.
I BELIEVE the 3 pin connector (1x3) Fab9 has listed for the 01/05 connects where the COILS attach to the harness on the NB2. Super convenient if you have an NB2 or an MSM, but does me no good
The NB1 uses a 4 pin connector at the coil, but its a 1x4 configuration. I'm pretty sure this one does not exist. At the other end of the ignition harness on the NB1, the 4 pin connector (2x2) that connects to the chassis harness is what I posted directly above. This DOES exist and can be used for a PNP install.
I BELIEVE the 3 pin connector (1x3) Fab9 has listed for the 01/05 connects where the COILS attach to the harness on the NB2. Super convenient if you have an NB2 or an MSM, but does me no good
Last edited by EO2K; 12-13-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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