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Old 08-13-2013, 11:35 AM   #21
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It doesn't matter.

He makes money building BP's for people, not other engines. the more money they waste on a BP the more money he makes. Therefore everyone should spend ALLOFIT.
I understand what you are saying by all means, but you have to understand that no matter what, I would still go nuts. I have had loads of people tell me to put a rotary in it but I would throw a 3 rotor with roundabouts 400hp and built to withstand 800hp but then I would have little to no low end grunt. I could throw a honda engine in it, but that is the last thing I care to do (no offence to honda) and I have thought about v8s and v6s but v8s are too heavy and I never found a v6 i liked enough.

I understand that what I am saying is silly or stupid or whatever, but what if every time someone wanted to build something crazy, someone stopped them. No Koenigsegg Grenada, no PJP Rolls Royce, no Kai Bakken Audi or Lotus, the cobra that Magnus Jinstrand built wouldn't exist, and lastly there would be no Singer Porsche. All of those people would have just said, "You're right. Lets just do tasteful mods, and be happy with the car."
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:41 AM   #22
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I understand what you are saying by all means, but you have to understand that no matter what, I would still go nuts. I have had loads of people tell me to put a rotary in it but I would throw a 3 rotor with roundabouts 400hp and built to withstand 800hp but then I would have little to no low end grunt. I could throw a honda engine in it, but that is the last thing I care to do (no offence to honda) and I have thought about v8s and v6s but v8s are too heavy and I never found a v6 i liked enough.

I understand that what I am saying is silly or stupid or whatever, but what if every time someone wanted to build something crazy, someone stopped them. No Koenigsegg Grenada, no PJP Rolls Royce, no Kai Bakken Audi or Lotus, the cobra that Magnus Jinstrand built wouldn't exist, and lastly there would be no Singer Porsche. All of those people would have just said, "You're right. Lets just do tasteful mods, and be happy with the car."

If you think a 3 rotor will have little to no low end grunt, you've got another think coming.


V8s aren't heavy, either. A proper LS1 swap adds minimal weight to a Miata.

Carry on with your bad self with your valves, but for someone who is presenting themselves as someone who knows a lot about things and stuff, there's some pretty silly statements being made.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:43 AM   #23
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Well I was hoping that maybe a couple of guys over there would be into it, but none the less... I came here. Swaggotry is a great name for it.

To the guy who said stay away from Ti valves: What you say has a valid point but (and this is a big but) I am not looking to do the stuff to the valves that causes failure. No turbo (at most a supercharger with low psi) and all the proper supporting mods to back it up ie. ti retainers, becu seats. Now am I saying that they will go without failure? No, I know how they can fail and why they do, so maybe that could help me make mine last way longer.

And if this option ends out being way too expensive, I will just take my time finding a 323 gtr head with it's better airflow and sodium valves (even though they aren't oversized) and go with that path (which I would still build the valve train and the cams to the spec I needed). Who knows.

Tracking down a BPD head when you're just going to build it anyways is pretty silly. Also silly being that we have guys on here making 400whp on 100% stock Miata heads.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:01 PM   #24
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I understand that what I am saying is silly or stupid or whatever, but what if every time someone wanted to build something crazy, someone stopped them. No Koenigsegg Grenada, no PJP Rolls Royce, no Kai Bakken Audi or Lotus, the cobra that Magnus Jinstrand built wouldn't exist, and lastly there would be no Singer Porsche. All of those people would have just said, "You're right. Lets just do tasteful mods, and be happy with the car."

Not spending $2k on Ti valves != not building a Koenigsegg. I will simply take my $2k and spend it on something that will significantly improve the performance of my car. If you show I can add significant value with the mod, I am all for it. If I wanted to spend money on every possible improvement to my car, it wouldn't get done. I wish you luck on your $10k head, most of my build won't cost that much.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Swanky View Post
I understand what you are saying by all means, but you have to understand that no matter what, I would still go nuts. I have had loads of people tell me to put a rotary in it but I would throw a 3 rotor with roundabouts 400hp and built to withstand 800hp but then I would have little to no low end grunt. I could throw a honda engine in it, but that is the last thing I care to do (no offence to honda) and I have thought about v8s and v6s but v8s are too heavy and I never found a v6 i liked enough.

I understand that what I am saying is silly or stupid or whatever, but what if every time someone wanted to build something crazy, someone stopped them. No Koenigsegg Grenada, no PJP Rolls Royce, no Kai Bakken Audi or Lotus, the cobra that Magnus Jinstrand built wouldn't exist, and lastly there would be no Singer Porsche. All of those people would have just said, "You're right. Lets just do tasteful mods, and be happy with the car."
1) First and foremost: Don't let our pessimism stop you from doing anything.
2) There are so many other 4 cylinders that make more power and torque and are more reliable. If you don't think a built k24 is impressive what are you doing spending 10k on a BP? I mean, c'mon.
3) There are plenty of v6's that also make a ton of power and torque. Or you can do boosted I6 or soemthing equally nuts and make more power than you know what to do with.
4) A v8 swap is what, like 200lb more over a BP? That's next to nothing. You can easily do weight redux to compensate.
5) An alum LS v8 can be built to accomodate anything your little heart desires.

Finally, regarding the last portion: see comment 1 again, but also keep in mind that if you're balling that hard, and want to spend absurd amounts of money in the name of science, well, that's pretty cool and carry on.

If you really have Koeniggsegg funds and want to spend them on a BP then I'll just kick back and watch this thread. Should be pretty sweet if you actually deliver. There's a few guys here that are doing this (1BAD, kaisersoze, etc) and we all just drool over their cars and give em props.

So we're not as much haters as some think
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:21 PM   #26
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What Vlad said. We don't hate people who spend money. We hate people who seem to waste money on something not needed. You would get the same reaction if you posted about wanting to spend $10k on a motec instead of on valves.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:51 PM   #27
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Then you should stay away from Ti in any part possible IMHO..
Let's be clear - I was replying to Vlad, not the OP. Even if they were reliable (which I question), I think $2k in Ti valves/becu seats is a silly price tag for parts that have almost no benefit.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:19 PM   #28
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I have no problem with a bomb proof na bp miata for the track. I just don't think it needs a 10k head to be bomb proof.

I gave both you and emilio (and others that followed) props for what you're doing with na miatas. Heck, we even propped hustler after rustling his jimmies a little bit lol
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:29 PM   #29
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I have no problem with a bomb proof na bp miata for the track. I just don't think it needs a 10k head to be bomb proof.
Agreed. If you want to make big power (think 180whp+) in a BP, headwork is required, but $10k is just silly. A fully built head from us is about $5k, but that's full porting, valvetrain, valves, new exhaust guides, and cams spec'd to the application - there's literally nothing left to do.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:41 PM   #30
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I love n/a BP threads.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:48 PM   #31
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I'll never try to argue that turbo power isn't cheaper, but there's something to be said for the simplicity of an N/A setup, and there are quite a few people out there willing to pay for that simplicity.

It's my job to give them the best N/A bang for their bucks
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:54 PM   #32
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I agree that there's a time and place for n/a motors, in fact, i have my own rather "built" n/a motor.

BPs just make me sad, though. It's one of those motors that's good because of the chassis they're in, instead of vice versa.
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