Hustler wakes up my sleepy '94 - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-16-2011, 02:22 AM   #21
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

This gets me excited to tune my NA 1.8. Only I/H/E + the MS. Should be interesting. We have a dyno here on base so I'm going to hope it's cheap to use.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2011, 04:39 PM   #22
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default



I set Both break points by what I though was best, and this section really doesn't make a difference. I let EGO correction take care of the low end and let myself take care of tuning the high end with smaller break points.

I'll upload the AFR targets later. However I was surprised to see Rick's car make the most torque at 12.3:1, rater than the typical 12.9-13.1
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 03:11 AM   #23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: TX
Posts: 335
Total Cats: 5
Default

Tonight's latest tune seemed to smooth things out and it pulls really strong! I'm going to switch back to the BKR5E plugs that you tuned with just for ***** and grins. I'll have extra BKR5 and BKR6 plugs we can play with at Hallett.

In the meantime, I might make a couple pulls on a Dynojet for the sake of comparison...

(WTF happened to my sig???)
trickyrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 08:40 AM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gainesville, Tx
Posts: 229
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
blah,blah...However I was surprised to see Rick's car make the most torque at 12.3:1, rater than the typical 12.9-13.1
Noob questions, but is there not more power to be had at leaner afr's? And this is why we want to err on the slightly safer rich side, giving up a bit of power for safety?

I'll be installing (read screwing up my car) MS after Hallett and have been hitting the books in the meantime..
sixace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 09:52 AM   #25
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Here is the billiard-table shaped 1.6 table I made.

I still want to do some cruise tuning on both cars. I had up to 38* spark and 16.5:1 on the dyno, trying to find knock and couldn't...so I'm going to road tune with the det cans for both guys.
I don't think you'll ever see det even when going leaner and more advanced, there's just not enough load.

Seeing as you have a dyno that's the best place to tune this, just make as much power you can with as little throttle travel - yes there are pumping losses, but without EGR you can't get around that.

So tune for max light throttle low/medium load power and you'll make the best economy.

OTR I tune cruise by going leaner until the car starts to surge, then add fuel in. Then do the same with timing, then repeat until you're happy.

FWIW I run way more timing than 38* at cruise, BUT I have no idea if that makes more power or less than 35 - 40 would. I need a dyno to be able to tune it properly.
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 09:54 AM   #26
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Check your base timing. I doubt your 40* advance story.

~13 extra advance at wot...i doubt this too.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 10:09 AM   #27
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixace View Post
Noob questions, but is there not more power to be had at leaner afr's? And this is why we want to err on the slightly safer rich side, giving up a bit of power for safety?

I'll be installing (read screwing up my car) MS after Hallett and have been hitting the books in the meantime..
Read Performance Fuel Injection Systems by our Friends Matt Cramer and Jerry Hoffman. This explained a few things I didn't understand about sensors and electronics, and confirmed a few things I saw on the dyno that I could not explain.

For the sake of this conversation, one of those is flame speed. 14.7 is generally considered the "fastest" flame speed. When you go leaner or fatter, the flame slows. When you go fatter or leaner, and find MBT on spark angle, you are targeting the "location of peak pressure" (LPP). I consider "safe" tuning more effective with spark angle than than AFR. Someone who knows more can chime in ad correct me at any time.

If you can plug-in MS and get the wideband wired in, I can tune the thing in a few hours. Jeff made good numbers in his car, I suspect we'll do better with the .5:1 lower compression on your engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
I don't think you'll ever see det even when going leaner and more advanced, there's just not enough load.

Seeing as you have a dyno that's the best place to tune this, just make as much power you can with as little throttle travel - yes there are pumping losses, but without EGR you can't get around that.

So tune for max light throttle low/medium load power and you'll make the best economy.

OTR I tune cruise by going leaner until the car starts to surge, then add fuel in. Then do the same with timing, then repeat until you're happy.

FWIW I run way more timing than 38* at cruise, BUT I have no idea if that makes more power or less than 35 - 40 would. I need a dyno to be able to tune it properly.
sorry dude, but I can't believe these numbers. I've seen detonation in my daily driver on a stock computer and saw some on the dyno in both cars I tuned last weekend. I tune with det-cans for all the detonation going on which the "naked ear" can't hear.

I'm going to have both cars plug into my MP3 player with the det can output and record a few laps in the heat. Then I'll either listen or get really crafty and open it up in a basic audio-production program and look at the sin-wave for detonation.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 10:23 AM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
sorry dude, but I can't believe these numbers. I've seen detonation in my daily driver on a stock computer and saw some on the dyno in both cars I tuned last weekend. I tune with det-cans for all the detonation going on which the "naked ear" can't hear.

I'm going to have both cars plug into my MP3 player with the det can output and record a few laps in the heat. Then I'll either listen or get really crafty and open it up in a basic audio-production program and look at the sin-wave for detonation.
Detcans here too, maybe your Texan heat has something to do with it, I dunno.

This is part throttle I'm talking about here, and part throttle only, nothing WOT or track based, merely cruising on the motorway/highway.

I'm seriously impressed you can get det at such low loads.
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 01:19 PM   #29
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default

I have a noob question. Where do you guys clip the mic for your det cans?

Thanks.
-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 05:58 PM   #30
Junior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
~13 extra advance at wot...i doubt this too.

im gonna try and find someone local who knows enough and has enough knowledge of MS to take a ride and listen to my det cans, enless im completly missing knock there is none.

But im not arguing at all that i was making good power at those numbers, running the 23* feels the same if not better, i need to pay for some dyno time but i dont know of any good Steady state dynos local to me.

if it matters im running non electronic det cans, just the copper pipe hose and ear protector style.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 06:19 PM   #31
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider706 View Post
I have a noob question. Where do you guys clip the mic for your det cans?

Thanks.
-Raj
Nipples.

I use the engine mount on the 1.6 and anywhere I can on the 1.8s. I have an old turbo manifold stud screwed into the power-steering hole and clip to that in my car.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 06:33 PM   #32
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

...
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2011, 11:40 PM   #33
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,131
Total Cats: 598
Default

Why not push E85?
triple88a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 12:18 AM   #34
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
MartinezA92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 1,702
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I'm going to have both cars plug into my MP3 player with the det can output and record a few laps in the heat. Then I'll either listen or get really crafty and open it up in a basic audio-production program and look at the sin-wave for detonation.
It would be great if you could post that here. I have never heard detonation and I am not really sure what I'm listening for when I have det cans on. It would help a lot when I finally dyno tune.

I'm definitely following your ways when I get there.
MartinezA92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 12:21 AM   #35
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,165
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Why not push E85?
+1. I've thought about adding a megasquirt and seeing what can be done with E85.
gearhead_318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 12:35 AM   #36
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,366
Total Cats: 1,327
Default

E85 probably isn't obtainable with enough frequency, especially for track cars.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2011, 12:46 AM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,131
Total Cats: 598
Default

That has been a problem for me indeed it stinks having to look for a gas station to fill up at. To be honest i always fill up at one gas station. Pain in the *** sometimes since the tank always has to be full enough.
triple88a is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sleepy eye mod!! turbobluemiata General Miata Chat 49 01-26-2012 04:59 PM
Soo... anybody smoke here? blaque Insert BS here 76 02-16-2008 03:22 PM
New Smilies test cjernigan Front Desk 11 01-18-2008 02:03 PM
sleepy eye help Matt16sfr General Miata Chat 9 06-04-2007 09:16 PM
Pivot headlight controller "sleepy eyes" mx5 squirrel Miata parts for sale/trade 11 12-25-2006 02:49 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 AM.