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Old 10-08-2015, 05:31 PM   #1
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Smile Max rpm on my build? yes it's already built

First off I wanted to thank all the people on this forum for supplying me with information and i was not a part of the community much. Now i am lol.


Sorry i hope this is not a dumb question as i am actually very new to this forum.

current mods just to motor and drive train
I just wanted an idea of what my rpm limit should be around....

Rebello built 1.65L b6
supertech +0.5mm 8.8:1 pistons
manly rods
ACL ceramic coated race bearings
port and polish
oversize supertech exhaust valves +1mm
vs-855 valve springs
kia lifters lol
1.8 valve train parts for sustained high rpm
Adaptronic ECU
ARP Everything,, yes the flywheel bolts too.
fadanza 7 ish lbs flywheel
2.5 separated Downpipe
3 inch cat back silverline

2000nb 6 speed
1.8 lsd

i think that's it



Soon to be changed
Greddy turbo kit with td04h
begi downpipe stainless

changed to a
begi s4 manifold
with s15 spec r t28r
custom Rebello downpipe.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:53 PM   #2
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7000rpm
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:54 PM   #3
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I'd run 8,000 on that assuming "vs-855" valvesprings don't float at 8,000. I'm not familiar with those valve springs.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I'd run 8,000 on that assuming "vs-855" valvesprings don't float at 8,000. I'm not familiar with those valve springs.
Also assuming the oil pump doesn't grenade.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:14 PM   #5
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I was under the impression that the vs-855 springs that have a 66lb resting rate had a much higher rpm capability vs the 46lb stock... closer to 9k is what some other have done.
Im guessing the 7000 rpm was much sarcasm because stock is 7200 rpm.
im going to look up the max rpm of the oil pump as i did not think of that.
i dont want to be accused of not using search function

btw motor was balanced also
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:24 PM   #6
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Then set it at 7200.
OEM oil pump is built for OEM RPMs.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:30 PM   #7
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What did the folks at Rebello say?
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox View Post
I was under the impression that the vs-855 springs that have a 66lb resting rate had a much higher rpm capability vs the 46lb stock... closer to 9k is what some other have done.
Im guessing the 7000 rpm was much sarcasm because stock is 7200 rpm.
im going to look up the max rpm of the oil pump as i did not think of that.
i dont want to be accused of not using search function

btw motor was balanced also
Those valve springs should be fine then. 7,000 wasn't sarcasm, lots of folks think the stock oil pump gears will break above the stock 6,900 RPM redline. I've rev'd BP's to 8,000, 8,500, 8,800, and never failed as stock oil pump. That's my experience. Apparently I'm really "lucky".

But on the forums it's common. Do a search and you'll find 1,000 post talking about upgrading oil pump gears, and how the stock gears are a known weak link. Cheap insurance, etc. Maybe find 3 people that actually broke them. Maybe. Anyways look into it and draw your own conclusions.

I also ran the stock throttle body and never had a throttle body screw failure. That probably was luck, because that failure is wayyyyy more common than broken oil pump gears. (you can probably find 20x more evidence of failed throttle body screws vs oil pump gears, for example) There's people racing miatas that are naturally aspirated that have had that failure. That one actually does happen, so if you rev to the moon consider a different throttle body.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:59 PM   #9
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Oil pump and damper are normally considered "necessary" for "to the moon" rev limits. Pat may have gotten away with it. But people have also gotten away with running 300+ on a stock motor. Or 300 through a 5 speed. But I blew my 5 speed at 220hp, and others vented their blocks much earlier.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:07 PM   #10
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Rebello said that 8k would be no issue with with springs that I had. mention of the oil pump was never made. apparently they have never seen a broken one and have been building miatas for quite some time spec miata, turbos and such. Brian who works there "owners son" who is after all the time i have talked with and knew before this build is kind of a friend now , had a 375 hp 1.6 and used the stock pump..
If the oil pump breaks at RPMs he sets me up for i know he would feel bad esp since i have known him for a fair amount of time and live about 15 miles away from their shop.

apparently most people who are breaking them don't have a fully built and balanced motor. i could be wrong here too but that makes a huge difference in hard metal life.

I honestly i really appreciate all the time you have spent with me already.
sorry for the block of text
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Those valve springs should be fine then. 7,000 wasn't sarcasm, lots of folks think the stock oil pump gears will break above the stock 6,900 RPM redline. I've rev'd BP's to 8,000, 8,500, 8,800, and never failed as stock oil pump. That's my experience. Apparently I'm really "lucky".

But on the forums it's common. Do a search and you'll find 1,000 post talking about upgrading oil pump gears, and how the stock gears are a known weak link. Cheap insurance, etc. Maybe find 3 people that actually broke them. Maybe. Anyways look into it and draw your own conclusions.
like the fact that your car probably saw like 5 minutes of total "track" time in 13 second intervals at a time?

lol
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Oil pump and damper are normally considered "necessary" for "to the moon" rev limits. Pat may have gotten away with it. But people have also gotten away with running 300+ on a stock motor. Or 300 through a 5 speed. But I blew my 5 speed at 220hp, and others vented their blocks much earlier.
How does you breaking a 5 speed at 220hp have anything to do with oil pump gear failures? Or other people failing stock rods? That has nothing to do with oil pump gear failures. I too have broken a 5 speed and stock rods, so what?

If anyone wants to make a point for using a better oil pump, post oil pump pressure data on your motor before/after the pump, or post pics of your broken oil pump and what conditions you were operating at when it failed. This forum is pretty good about no BS, data/fact/actual experience, but for some reason that doesn't apply to oil pumps? That's what's sad about oil pump gear failures, there is almost No evidence of it, so people make analogies (this broke at... that broke at...) excuses (cheap insurance, while you're in there, why not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox View Post
Rebello said that 8k would be no issue with with springs that I had. mention of the oil pump was never made. apparently they have never seen a broken one and have been building miatas for quite some time spec miata, turbos and such. Brian who works there "owners son" who is after all the time i have talked with and knew before this build is kind of a friend now , had a 375 hp 1.6 and used the stock pump..
If the oil pump breaks at RPMs he sets me up for i know he would feel bad esp since i have known him for a fair amount of time and live about 15 miles away from their shop.

apparently most people who are breaking them don't have a fully built and balanced motor. i could be wrong here too but that makes a huge difference in hard metal life.

I honestly i really appreciate all the time you have spent with me already.
sorry for the block of text
If they told you 8, I'd run it to 8.

Several years ago I spent a few hours looking for ANYONE that actually broke an oil pump gear. I found 3 who had pictures of the failure, and two of them were not using a harmonic damper at all (were instead using an aluminum pulley that replaced the stock harmonic damper as it saved weight) and one was using a damper, but had previously run the mentioned aluminum pulley that replaced his damper but switched back before his oil pump failed. If oil pump failures are common, I'm sure a quick search will turn up several people who have had such failures.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:30 PM   #13
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Point is that not every situation is the same. Some things work for some people others don't.

Its very simple.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
like the fact that your car probably saw like 5 minutes of total "track" time in 13 second intervals at a time?

lol
Perfect example of oil pump gear failure evidence. Someone on the internet tells me how long my car has been on a track.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:32 PM   #15
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like the fact that your car probably saw like 5 minutes of total "track" time in 13 second intervals at a time?

lol
So instead of trying to help in any way you decide to smash another member?
oh nice moderator.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:33 PM   #16
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so instead of asking the people that built your engine what it's capable of revving to, you post up a dumb question online for people that have no idea what you have, to answer for you?

but you paid big money for a 1.6, so.....

..makes sense
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:35 PM   #17
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I don't see cams on that list. There's no point in going over 7000rpm with the stock 1.6L cams.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Point is that not every situation is the same. Some things work for some people others don't.

Its very simple.
I agree with that extremely generalized statement. It is very simple.

That says nothing for why oil pump gears fail, or that yours failed under what conditions, or what improvement you have measured with a different oil pump. This forum is supposed to be no BS, actual data, actual experience, not hearsay.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox View Post
So instead of trying to help in any way you decide to smash another member?
oh nice moderator.
That's Vlad, he does that. Better me than you, I can take it. I'm need to bounce some E85 questions of V soon actually, better not **** him off too much.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:38 PM   #20
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lol you know I'll help regardless
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