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Old 09-14-2011, 03:14 AM   #1
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Default Motor budget-looking for longevity and power (suggestions)

So it seems my motor is giving up the ghost. Need to get my hands on a leak down tester but 90% sure my rings are toast. I purchased this car a few months ago with an FM2 already in it. The tool that had it before never hooked the BOV to a signal(vac/boost) and fried the turbo . I am completely new to standalones and even my girl saw his map over my shoulder and new it was fucked. As it sits now I've put in a FM crossflow radiator with their fans and shroud, (garret gt2560)turbo has been rebuild by people better than me, new timing everything and water pump, everything is clean and sealed up with new gaskets, and had RC clean and balance the 550cc injectors. So basically everything in the engine bay is new/rebuilt but the long block as of about 300 miles ago so reusing everything but the timing belt. I'd like to go for 300hp with the option to upgrade the turbo/manifold/intercooler later for more power. Here is the list and the budget is $3000 or less plus machine shop labor. Please let me know if there are better options for ruffly the same price.
CP piston 84mm/Eagle rods--------------$830
FM valve spring kit-----------------------$379
hate reusing springs but might
Billit oil pump Boundry Engineering---------$439
Supertech stainless valves----------------$279
don't want to machine for +1mm unless
someone knows it'll make enough more
power to be worth it
ARP head/main studs 949racing-----------$209
Rebuid kit stuff (gaskets, seals, bearings)-$600
FM level 2 clutch-------------------------$395
Total------------------------------------$3131ish
Already have the light flywheel and might as
well do the clutch while the motor is out since
I have no idea what the condition of the ACT
that's in it
I used to do head work back in the day. I'll probably
clean up the exhaust runners a bit and have the machineshop
unshroud the valves.
and if funds allow
New wideband and 2.7 hydra update-----$1000ish getting married next month and FM gift certificates are top of my registry list.

Might just refresh the stock head and do the bottom end to save cash to afford the ECU upgrade and go 3in exhaust (ARTech down and home brew the rest). If I do just the bottom end I'll pick up an extra head when I can and build it. Heads are way easier to swap than the bottom end. Any suggestions for ditching stuff for the top end at the moment to make the bottom better are well warranted. Advise me, I bow down to your wisdom.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:14 AM   #2
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I should point out before the flaming that I actually want my turbo to be the limiting item. I just rebuilt it and no funds for the supporting mods. IE; external wastgate, etc. I know 300hp is probably optimistic. I'm figuring if I make the turbo what limits me it keeps me from going boost crazy till I get used to it and get better at tuning (or learn to tune at all). I'm also looking at doing a few odds and ins while the car is down. Like maybe swap the rear end from my '97 to the '99 (the one getting the motor) to up the gear ratio a bit. Put in a actual wideband gauge so I can stop driving with the laptop in the other seat. Inconel studs to, till I get some ***** and go V band.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:34 AM   #3
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I think your rebuild kit is too expensive, along with the rods. Go with eBay rods and they're only $300. Re use stock pistons and you save a LOT of machining. Stock springs and valves should be ok too, but I'll let others chime in about that.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:11 AM   #4
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I paid $1300 for gaskets, machining, balance, and assembly.

Make sure the pistons have the same "squish/quench" rather than a repositioned wrist pin location. I've heard that Supertechs simply move the wrist pin higher to reduce compression, but they sure look like a different shape to me:

But looks can be deceiving.

I also wish I added the oil pump gears but timing was not on my side. I don't know that valves are necessary, but "higher temp" exhaust valves wouldn't hurt. I'm also reusing the factory valve springs.

If you want reliability, I think lowered compression is the way to go, it's also making great torque. Its given me a large safety-margin.
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:08 PM   #5
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Really would like to just upgrade the bottom end as a whole. So factoring just the bottom end and the $600 (pretty sure thats the high side) for gaskets, etc. I'm at $2500 plus just a stock head refresh and machining. I used to do some machining at a shop 10years ago before the military but have brain dumped it all for combat crap. Also I did the work and never the billing so a little out of it on machining prices. Need to find a local shop that doesn't suck. The cp/eagle stuff is an ebay special and the other prices are just what I found after an hour of shopping online. Down for it if anyone know cheaper places. Been out of the scene for several years and things change.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:53 PM   #6
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Savington can do all this cheaper than the prices you've posted here.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
CP piston 84mm/Eagle rods--------------$830
FM valve spring kit-----------------------$379
hate reusing springs but might
Billit oil pump Boundry Engineering---------$439
Supertech stainless valves----------------$279
don't want to machine for +1mm unless
someone knows it'll make enough more
power to be worth it
ARP head/main studs 949racing-----------$209
Rebuid kit stuff (gaskets, seals, bearings)-$600
FM level 2 clutch-------------------------$395
Total------------------------------------$3131ish
Starting at the top: CP/Eagle is a good combo, but you can do Supertech/Eagle cheaper and the Supertech is IMO a nicer piston (springy alloy will be quieter and burn less oil)

Valve springs are a waste of money unless you intend to spin the motor, which you shouldn't be doing without headwork and cams. So are stainless valves. You don't need +1 valves, unshrouding, or anything to make huge power in a Miata - my head is totally stock, I make huge power and huge torque. Leave it all alone, set the rev limit at 7400, and focus on improving area under the curve.

Rebuild costs are a little high, but not way out of this world. With a Mazdacomp account you'll spend around $550 for all the seals and gaskets, new WP/idler/tensioner, Gates kevlar TB, and ACL main/rod/thrust bearings.

There's no reason to replace the clutch if you have an ACT in there, unless you think you might exceed the rated power. ACT will rebuild their discs fairly cheap, so as long as the PP is in good shape you can save a lot of money there. IIRC they charged me $50 to re-puck my ACT (did this for the buyer before I sold it).

Didn't I talk to you this week about buying a motor from us?
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:54 PM   #8
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EDIT: ^ Yes I did and ignore whats is below. Was typing it while you posted this. I'll give ya another call with a few questions if you don't mind. Jeeps down and bike is acting funny, when it rains it pours.

I called trackspeed the other day. I have nothing to say but great things about that call. My only issue is TN to them and back is around $600 in shipping (estimated). I'm still debating if $600 in shipping is worth knowing someone will do it right vs Billy Bob out here with a power drill will do a good job. Think I'll take the SV out tomorrow and go machine shop hunting. I can put the motor in the back of my Jeep ( once I get the diff fixed) and go 15min up the road if I find a decent shop. Any reason the M-tuned rods/supertech pistons are equal strength to the cp/eagle stuff. just have more experience with cp/eagle
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Savington can do all this cheaper than the prices you've posted here.
+1

Just send TSE a check and you will get a baller motor.

Also 300hp at the wheel will prob be a stretch on the FM manifold and DP. All the setups with a 2560 that I have seen that have broken 300hp have been on Absurdflow Manifolds and after market intake manifolds. I do wish you luck on it though, as you will get damn near close if you don't break it.
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