MSM engine suddenly broke!
 

Ok, first of all my car used an european 1996 model 1.6 l that had 90 whp. As we all know, not having turbo on a miata is really boring. And especially after Inglar took me out for a spin in his previous car(he had an MSM with the Big enchilada), I was on fire. Only 2 months later I found an MSM engine on ebay with the transmission on, turbo, downpipe and wire harness for only 3000$. And it had only traveled 33 000 miles. Bought the Hydra 2.6 aswell too to make room for further upgrades(soon garret 3071 on vvt engine).

But, 3 months ago something wierd happened. I was at 3000 rpm and changed gear, went straigt up to 4500 and WOT. And suddenly, BAM! I heard very loud knock that changed with rpm. I guessed a rod, but I was in the middle of nowhere, and the knock sound stopped so I went driving the rest of the way home.

Just abou a mile before I was home I heard a bigger bang and the oil pressure went down to 0. Stopped the car asap and opened the engine bay. I quickly saw that the rod had been shot out through the block and the baffle pan making the piston move freely inside the cylinder.

Does anyone have any ideas of what could of have happened? And, is it possible that the pistons have destroyed one of my rods?

Yes. You do too:
Why? Not sure. How hard were you pushing it? boost? timing? afr?
You need to post more details.

As for rods: definitely replace them with stronger ones. Even if they're in ok condition. Stock miata rods are one of the weakest links in the powertrain, no reason not to upgrade them.

I don't see any detonation on those pistons, I suppose you were unlucky enough to find the limits of the stock rods.


On a side note, #4 is the fattest, #2 is the leanest.

Need to see a full dissection of the motor to give any more info. It could have been a straight rod failure, a bearing failure, or a rod hardware failure.

What compression ratio are the MSM's? Those pistons look really domed up to me for turbo pistons.

Bob

low end torque is what does this to mazdaspeed3's.

I agree that they look domed and I expected dished.

IIRC same as the 99-00 nb which is 9.5:1

Of course I was forgetting some details.

Turbo: stock msm turbo with original DP
catback: some random 2.5 "
Intake: Custom made.
Map: FM's map. Stock timing table
Pressure: 14 psi.
Fuel system: Rebuilt from retourless to retour.

I was driving a while ago with some knock on high rpm, but I got it adjusted quick.

Could the valves have been damaged? They looked fine too me. Btw, the block itself is totally broken. The rod was located in cylinder number 2 from the radiator.

What did the wideband say?

The valves could be damaged, they could be fine. Depends on whether the piston hit them or not.

It's obvious that you threw a rod, but in order to give you any more info than that we need to see the inside of the motor. Pull it out, pull the pan/mbsp, and snap some photos of the big end of the rod, condition of the rod hardware, etc.

Isn't anything above 10-11 psi kinda pushing it for stock rods?
You're at 14.:idea:

Stock MSM turbo at 14psi is well within the range of safety for a stock motor.

People who use boost levels to describe the capability of the stock motor do a huge disservice to this community. Not directed at you, just people in general.

The stock MSM turbo is very small, I don't know how many whp that should be, but not more than 200. I had fuel cut a couple of times so I

I guess that there might be valve damage then, because there's a very big chance for that the rod would have rotated and shot it up, and there are very small marks on the exhaust valves.

I will pull the block apart in about 4 weeks(got a broken wrist atm) and show you more leet photos :)

Welcome to the party, lol. Mine failed in the exact same fashion, although with more boost.

If it's marked, it's bent. Expect to replace the entire longblock.

Yeah, what sav said. Mine had piston contact on the valves (like everyone said it wouldn't). It is either time for oversized valves, or a new head. I chose VVT. I did manage to sell my HLA's and exhintake cam to offset the cost of the steal I got on a "needs some work" vvt head.

Is it possible the last few thousand miles were extremely abusive and ended in a crash? Might be why the engine was being sold. An aquantience had nitrous oxide dumped in the tank and raced until it exploded when his accord was stolen.

Head casting & cams should still be fine, no?

--Ian

It depends.
If the piston smacked the valve then I doubt it. Pull it apart and find out.

Dann

If he's going to build a motor, sure - otherwise the cost of a head gasket, four new valves, installation, seals, etc. is going to outstrip the additional cost of a longblock vs. a shortblock.

I got a vvt engine and a complete new turbo setup that's going in.

Guess I will be selling my cams then :) Does the msm valve cover fit any other miata head? :)

Orly? Just dumped it in, huh? :giggle:

Anyone Know the stock timing table of an msm turbo engine?

Yeah! PM me with your email adress and I can send the Hydra map for it :)

Are we looking at the same pistons?

I see nothing. It usually shows up around the quench pads, and they look fuzzy with carbon but fine to me.

You should have got a VVT motor and Borg turbo form the get go. There is nothing special about the MSM motor. Its a 95 block, 99 head, with a tiny turbo that will put down like 200whp at 15psi, and an artifically low redline. The value of an MSM is in the fact that you get the whole car (bilsteins, t2r, axels, sport brakes, sways, springs, racing harts) for the cost of a regular NB of same year mileage.

Your best bet is to check the head to make sure its good, slap on another block and sell the whole setup to someone else to recoup the most money.

this one looks really suspect to me.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...0&d=1307562838https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...0&d=1307562838

I HAVE 160,000 MILES ON MY RACE CAR MSM 2004, 1/8 MILE, 1/4 MILE, AUTO CROSS & DAILY RED LINES..... AEM CAI, NO CAT, GLASSPACKED MUFFLER & EVERYTHING ELSE STOCK. NO PROBLEMS EXCEPT 5 SETS CRACKED/BENT RIMS, 3 CRACKED WINDSHIELDS (stopped engine shaking with 3 engine shocks)... and a Mishimoto Radiator for heat management.... I also have 80,000 on a 2nd MSM 100% stock... 2 sets of cracked/bent rims... based on what you said, I will not go over 10lbs boost.... on both cars.... gone through 20+ sets of tires and 1 clutch change & 2 sets of brake pads... Oil changes every 2-3k... but no knocks....

Do yourself a favor and get rid of those racing harts for a nice 15" setup.

I DID, RH ARE SO WEAK, so I went to other 17" and they bent too. Went to 15, 16 and they did not mix well with "pot holes" or So. California Roads... Now on Axis 10 spoke rims with 1600lb rating per rim... no problems now... have 3 sets for 2 cars, got rid of all other rims... I use 225-35-18 on back and 215-35-18 front, Staggered, really BMW Z4 looks....

I had to look up what quench pad is. On these pistons, is it the outer face adjoining the valve relief cuts? I guess you mean the melted area on the piston below (supertech).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321382207


Are you referring to the spotting in the carbon?

yeah, spefically around the edges.

Yep, upon further review the referee says its det.

Get off our forum you stupid retarded fuck...and stop wearing those 1970s flower print m.netter shirts. God I should have fucked with your car when I had the chance...but I felt sorry for you after listening to you babble on and on to some poor schmuck at C&C.